1,000 Words: The more things change…

… the more they don’t.

Ain’t that America.

  • jon

    From both sides of the argument on my Facebook feed: “people just don’t get it.”

    And about half of them are right.

    • People used to look at me with revulsion years ago when I said a civil war is coming.

      Tonite, on Oprah’s panel of voters on 60 m
      Minutes, everyone nodded when the possibility was raised.

      It’s not far off.

      • Rob

        Yup. And our Antagonizer-in-Chief will be able to claim credit for setting the spark to it. We are in Bizarro World until such time as our demonstrably mentally ill POTUS leaves office. May that time be sooner rather than later.

      • jon

        A civil war might be a nice alternative to a world war…

        Both seems likely…

        With either international fighting triggering a domestic response or vice versa…

      • Barton

        Oprah’s piece was hard to sit through. Hard to listen to. But it was good. My jaw did drop a few times, and I did find myself yelling at a few people.

        I still have trouble with the idea that a civil war/break up is going to happen. Now its starting to feel like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      • X.A. Smith

        Hey, though—maybe we can get Andrew Jackson to stop it this time.

      • KTFoley

        Hypothesis: Reliable methods to guarantee violent protests are to ignore, dismiss, or suppress the non-violent ones.

      • Jay T. Berken

        Last night my buddy, since 1st grade, texted me that he will not be going to the Packers/Saints game due to “Mark Murphy taking the side of some useless handful of players not STANDING for the flag…find a different avenue to show how much they hate the Police”. I, unlike my internet self, told him ‘no worries’. But inside, I was sad for him that he is not at least recognizing why they are doing this protest in the players’ eyes.

        But the bigger point is that we were put into this situation (or escalated situation) because of Trump. I could have said something, but he might not have taken my words lightly and could have escalated to a point he would not talk to me (I love him as a brother, but he did not talk to me for three months after he found out the first time I drank). Instead I, as a white male, have the privilege of allowing this roll off my shoulders and tuck it away. Trump is dividing this country on trivial crap and is not but looking to escalate that divide for his own ego/entertainment/etc.

  • The reaction is identical. Absolutely identical.

  • Rob

    Bzzzzzzzzzzt. You need to school up on why today’s athletes are doing what they are. T.Rump wouldn’t recognize a free speech concept if it came up and bit him on the heinie. He is also profoundly clueless about the legacy of racism in college and professional sports.

  • AL287

    I don’t recall past POTUS’s demanding that professional football players be fired if they protested during the national anthem or maybe my memory isn’t what it used to be.

    Of course Twitter didn’t exist during Reagan, Carter, Bush I or Clinton. Since Trump’s base is 99% white and clueless, what did you expect?

    It’s obvious Kelly hasn’t figured out a way to get rid of his smart phone or he would have done it by now. He could tell Trump it is a matter of national security but frankly I don’t think the man gives a damn.

    Presidents of the past went to fundraisers to support and endorse their candidate of choice. Trump has to have a political rally to solidify his shrinking base. He might have gotten a small boost in the polls with his crossing the aisle for immigration and the debt ceiling but we knew that couldn’t last long.

    He’ll be right back in the tank again with his war mongering with Kim Jong Un.

    Just when you thought it was safe to come out of your bomb shelter…..

  • theoacme

    I know an otherwise very level-headed and well-grounded woman who reacted in support of the racist lies effectively supported by President Trump…her posts implied that that all veterans were offended, and that the NFL should either recant its stance here, or go bankrupt because the players’ stance is offensive to our veterans…

    …I could tell you what my US Navy veteran brother said (he was on the USS New Jersey during the Hezbollah terrorism in Lebanon during the ’80’s), but Bob would have to delete it, having used 41 words beyond all of George Carlin’s “seven dirty words”…

    …but I see a LOT of public support for the fascism of President Trump, and I believe that every person that supports President Trump in this case, including the very good friend I mentioned above, is capable of lynching anyone who doesn’t agree with President Trump…

    …my views echo my brother’s, but I’ll say them printably: [this] country we had once, it is no longer a country, it is just a place to wait to die… (Tina Vardas, from Rex Stout, “The Cop Killer”)…

    …and I would rather be lynched in the Bull Connor-approved manner, than ever agree with President Trump on this issue…and if anyone reads this, and wants to lynch me, I give them my permission to lynch me immediately, so help me God.

    • jon

      It is VERY VERY important that we protect veterans and soldiers (people who we literally send out to be shot at by folks who want to kill them and frequently us too) from people being able to choose the position they keep their body in during a national anthem.

      It matters far less (perhaps not at all) that we protect them from the bullets, and IEDs, and the situations that lead to the bullets and IEDs. (group of millionaires who play football, vs a group of millionaires who are playing global thermonuclear war… and we are opposed to the football playing variety…)

      And that makes me really really sad.

      It’s nearly as bad as some of the things I’ve heard suggested that if you don’t’ stand for the national anthem you can stand in front of a firing squad manned by veterans and soldiers… because what’s more patriotic and supportive of our troops than to suggest that they are murders, not in response to an actual threat, but in response to an action of protest…

      Nothing shows support for our troops like suggesting they kill people at the drop of a hat for pretty much no reason. .:eye roll:.

    • If people believe people died in order to stifle dissent, you might be talking about the other side.

      The “what about the soldiers” response to a protest on institutional racism in Amerca is a cynical distraction. They dishonor the sacrifice of those soldiers.

      The flag is cloth that stands for something. The people who seem to recognize that are the ones kneeling and sitting.

      The other crowd are the sons and grandsons of the people who beat up people for sitting at a Woolworth’s lunch counter.

      • “Appeal to patriotism” is a rhetorical device: “An emotional appeal; appeals to the audience’s love of country, persuading them to act by implying they are treasonous they chose not to.” Source: https://quizlet.com/136935625/rhetorical-devices-flash-cards/

      • “The flag is cloth that stands for something. The people who seem to recognize that are the ones kneeling and sitting.”

        How many teams did not even take to field for the National Anthem? Not many, but enough. That is more of a chickenhawk maneuver IMO. “Don’t want to risk disrepecting anyone on either side of the controversy, so we’ll just hide out here in the locker room and let others take the heat.” :/

        • That’s pretty much SOP until 2009 when the Department of Defense started writing checks to the league to make football a military recruiting tool.

          Hey, I’m still waiting for someone to acknowledge that the flag embodies public defenders,too.

          • So, it’s really “Patriotic Theater”. Not codified into law, as is the National Anthem being played since President Wilson’s 1916 order that it be “played at military and other appropriate occasions” … two decades before the song was even recognized by Congress as our national anthem (and, even then, it took seven or eight bills being introduced before Congress acted).

            Prior to “The Star-Spangled Banner” being played at baseball games, people did sing “Take Me Out to the Ball Game”.

            😉

          • Also, pre-1970, NFL players had a certain notoriety when it came to the National Anthem:

            “It was Dec. 20, 1975, and the Vikings played at Buffalo in a nationally televised game to close the regular season. Grant had his players line up before the game in the Vikings Formation, a way of standing at attention during the national anthem he had instituted when he became Minnesota’s coach in 1967.

            “… ‘We were all standing at attention,’ Grant said. ‘Nobody was wearing jackets, nobody was moving, nobody was chewing gum, nobody was rocking and rolling. On the Buffalo sideline, they were over there, some of them huddled around heaters, some wearing parkas, some with their hoods on, some with helmets on. They were milling about, weaving, bobbing, stomping their feet.'”

            http://www.twincities.com/2016/10/08/bud-grants-vikings-with-their-strict-anthem-formation-have-varied-views-on-colin-kaepernick/

    • Rob

      Love that Tina Vardas quote.

  • //got very little support for their actions.

    from white people.

  • Yeah, it was a real lovefest in America yesterday.

  • On this topic in particular, the discussion boards and social media are getting vile – “America, love it or leave it” is rearing its ugly head once again, recalling the nasty intolerance and bigotry about which we are reminded in the new Vietnam series. It’s too bad so many cannot understand the difference between a symbol and the values it represents.

    • I’ve been thinking about an op-ed I read after Vietnam ended. I’ve never been able to find it since and I don’t recall what paper it was in; only that it was syndicated.

      The title was a history lesson all its own: “The Kids Were Right.”

  • Rob

    They got some support from a few white NFL owners. From Jane and Joe Six-Pack, not so much.

  • MikeB

    It’s tough to tell from social media but my guess is that most veterans support the right to these protests, and are pushing back on those who want to use the military as props to oppose these rights.

    • The military oath of enlistment:

      I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

      • MikeB

        Trump is succeeding in convincing people that loyalty to the US and it’s principles = loyalty to Trump. We’re not immune to a personality cult.

        • Rob

          T.Rump is succeeding in convincing people in his base that loyalty to US = loyalty to himself. The rest of us, not so much. But granted, there are enough tin-hatted people – egged on by The Bum and his toadies (Hannity, et al) – to foment a civil war.

        • @MikeB: Agreed. I keep seeing images of Mussolini in my mind whenever I see Trump performing at a podium. 🙁

          https://i.imgur.com/86mx7hh.gif

      • MrE85

        Yep. My enlistment is long over, but I still remember that one.

  • Jack

    As someone who was bullied early in life, I made a choice to live my life in a way that serves to help others less fortunate than myself.

    Maybe too it is the result of meeting others in high school who had experienced things I could barely understand. The brothers from Beruit, sent by their parents to escape mandatory conscription into the military during the civil war of the 80’s. The refugees from Vietnam who experienced atrocities. Trish, the foreign exchange student from South Africa who hung out with the other exchange students and commented that under Apartheid, what she was doing was illegal.

    Then again maybe this is due to growing up in a family that has representation from all around the world. Living in Africa myself surely shaped my world views.

    Whatever it is and whatever religion you are (or not), we owe it to ourselves and others to be decent.

    As the world grows every crazier, I’m fighting back by volunteering that much more for causes such as hunger and homelessness.

    People, take a page from the Vietnam era. War is not the answer.

  • Tim o’Bedlam

    None of the people angry at the protestors are friends to the First Amendment. I sadly think that if the Bill of Rights were put to a vote today, it wouldn’t pass (and it *definitely* wouldn’t pass white Americans, except for the 2nd.)

  • The weight of the presidency to urge employers to fire people for exercising a right is troubling, indeed.

    And wrapping yourself in the flag, and citing its freedoms, while using it as reason why there should not be dissent is just about as illogical as it gets.

    None of this, however, is surprising since America’s ignorance about the Constitution is well documented. It is just being displayed.

    Members of the military take an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign AND domestic. There’s nothing about a flag, which is a piece of cloth that symbolizes the rights and freedoms enshrined in the constitution.

    • A more important and reasonable quesiton is this one. When Donald Trump gave his speech on Friday night, was he, to the best of his ability, preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States?

  • Gary F

    Who is going to get stuck paying the bill for “The People’s Stadium” in downtown Minneaplis when the NFL goes bankrupt in the next 5-10 years?

    Or all the other stadiums the public financed it the last 10 years?

  • I make no claim that voicing displeasaure is any less constitutionally protected than what the athletes claim.

    I made a claim of hypocrisy — and frankly a little obscenity — of using the deaths of soldiers to justify support for denying anyone the right to dissent. It is the very definition of dishonoring their sacrifice.

    If you are not standing up for the right to dissent, you are on the side of those who killed them.

    I make a claim that Americans are ignorant of what the flag stands for and that ignorance has resulted in a perverse idolatry.

  • MrE85
  • MrE85
  • KTFoley

    I’m watching this over the season (and reading very carefully the disclaimer about rushing vs. passing). It might be the only football thing I DO watch.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/sports/kaepernick-tracker/?utm_term=.3ddafdabe84a

  • Jay T. Berken