Open thread: The day after

Go. And be nice to each other, please.

  • Rob

    The clusterf+!k of the kakistocracy begins. Paul Krugman of NYT wonders whether the election outcome indicates that the U.S. has become a failed state. IMHO, it has indeed.

  • Ben Chorn

    Hopefully this means Congress will finally do some work.

    • BJ

      ha, ha. Something to laugh about. But I guess anything can happen.

      • asiljoy

        Why wouldn’t they? Republicans have very few roadblocks to implement whatever they want now that they control all 3. While we can debate whether or not what the politicians will do is helpful/productive, the stalemate has been effectively squashed.

        • jon

          Because the republican party has become a loose confederation of people who are all opposed to abortions, the ACA, and taxes on the wealthy.

          Almost everything else is still up for debate within the party.

          So we might get a new tax law… .we might even get a repeal on the ACA if they can figure out what to replace it with.

        • BJ

          >whatever they want now that they control all 3

          That’s the problem, besides not wanting abortions, ACA, and taxes. What do they want? It will be a mad dash for power and infighting.

    • RBHolb

      Perhaps, but I really don’t like the kind of work this Congress will be doing.

    • Rob

      They will; that’s the danger.

    • Ben

      Does this mean that they can move forward with SCOTUS nominee without friction, or can Dems obstruct that like GOP threatened to do? I don’t necessarily think this is a good option, just wondering how it works.

      • jon

        Yes the DFL can still filibuster, but the GOP could go nuclear and eliminate the filibuster. Generally that has been something the senate has been reluctant to do because if the balance of power changes then the only recourse for the minority party is gone… but for a supreme court nomination with the goal of overturning roe v wade they might just do it.

  • Gary F

    More bad news, Twins keep Neil Allen pitching coach. Nothing like keeping a pitching coach after your staff was one of the league’s worst.

  • Dude (Not Sweet)

    I appreciate Van Jones even more than I did already.

  • KTFoley

    I found myself looking up the history of how often members of the electoral college cast their vote for someone other than the winner of the state’s popular vote.

  • And…HRC received more votes than Trump…just like Gore did in 2000.

    Those who voted for Trump haven’t the slightest clue as to the damage his Presidency, coupled with a GOP Congress, will do to our country.

    I weep for our future.

    • jon

      establishment republicans and the dem’s have their work cut out for themselves to mitigate the disaster…. we’ll have to wait to see how well they do at it….

    • Rob

      Police sci guy Thomas Franks had it right awhile ago when he wrote the book, “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” regarding the fact that so many people in the Midwest had begun voting against their own interests. Fast-forward to today, and the problem has spread throughout the country. So expect a sequel, titled “What’s the Matter with Us/U.S.?”

      • jon

        ballot measures to legalize marijuana and raise the minimum wage pass at the same time as candidates who oppose those very things are elected…

        The propaganda war during the campaigns eliminates the need for issues.

        • Jerry

          Yeah, Trump seems more like a cocaine guy

  • Dan

    I was openly wondering what Trump was doing in Minnesota so close to the election. I guess I got my answer; it was so close, they didn’t call it until after 8:00 this morning.

    • crystals

      At least part of it was that media coverage of this event also extended into western Wisconsin. Two for one.

  • John O.

    “Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain has turned on the “Fasten Seatbelt” light and asked you to return to your seats. All trays should also be put in the upright and locked position at this time. Thank you.”

    • “Brace for impact.”

      • Jerry

        “But it’s ok, he’s had a few drinks to calm his nerves”

  • Kurt O

    Two words: Jesse Ventura

    • RBHolb

      Who made a hash of the state’s finances, got bored, and stopped taking an active role after two years.

      • Jeffrey

        Actually Jesse formulated a combination of spending cuts and tax increases to address the deficit before he left office. The legislature ignored it and passed their own plan.

        • RBHolb

          Putting tax cuts and spending increases in place (the first budget) was irresponsible without a mechanism to rescind one or both if/when forecasts don’t pan out.

      • BJ

        Yeah so wrong on so many levels. Go back and see what those budgets were and what passed and what was vetoed and what veto’s got over ridden. You will find it wasn’t Jess that made a hash of the state’s budget.

    • Gary Leatherman

      Yep. Minnesota saw this in 1998. Protest vote elects the unelectable. Then 4 yrs of OMG, what did we do? Lesson learned.

      America now has to learn hers.

      • Kurt O

        What’s sad is that nobody learned from that. A while back MPR interviewed the author of a book that detailed how the polls failed and Jesse won. Guess it wasn’t a popular read in the polling community or political partied

    • Anna

      And what is he in the headlines for today? Suing a decorated veteran’s estate for a he said/she said defamation of character.

      Sound familiar?

  • Will

    We need to respect one another now, thank you to everyone who participated in the electoral process.

    • Jerry

      So I need to respect bigots? Because I don’t think I can.

    • Rob

      You can’t respect a dude who doesn’t respect anybody but himself. Oh, wait — let’s respect Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, Sean Hannity and Steve Bannon instead (the conservative NYT columnist, Russ Douthat, referred to Newt and Rudy as “hacks and flatterers”) as they’re all likely to be in T. Rump’s cabinet.

  • Dan

    I’m less optimistic than I was in 2000 that the results will serve as a civics lesson for those who feel the US Presidential election is about getting to feel good about who you voted for. For everyone who just couldn’t wait for the election to be over: well, it’s over.

  • Jay Sieling

    A wise man (Mr. Rogers) once said: “When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, “Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.” This is the thought that crept into my mind this morning. Thinking of silver linings. My friend Bob Cunniff was elected to the local school board. Ilhan Omar was elected as the first Somali American state representative. Kate Brown was elected Governor of Oregon, the first openly LBGT governor. These people are helpers.

    “Look for the helpers, you will always find people who are helping.” Cory Booker is a helper, Tim Walz is a helper, Elizabeth Warren is a helper. There are many others. Look for them. Support them.

    Not all helpers are elected. Not all helpers wear uniforms. If you can’t see a helper, be a helper. Support each other. Be vigilant and call out injustice. As I write this, the sun is rising as it does each day. As the rosy-fingered dawn appears, early born, our helping begins.

    “Look for the helpers” help them help others. Don’t wallow in despair, don’t curse the darkness – light a lamp. Ronald Reagan referred to our country as “a shining city on a hill”. Don’t think that that is so easily extinguished after last night. Georg HW Bush referred to “a thousand points of light”. That is still all of us. We can still make things shine.

    So be a helper today, and everyday.

    Be well.

    • Anna

      Just when I had lost all hope in the American electorate I read your post and you are absolutely right.

      All of the people you mention thought of the greater good and the current ones still do.

      I was a Bernie fan but I voted for Hillary, partly because her rhetoric started with “We” and not “I.”

      We need to keep focusing on “we.”

    • Dan

      “Mr. Rogers, what a total loser, that sweater was a disaster!”

      -President Trump

      • tboom

        -President Rogers!!!

  • Matt

    I think this really shows how fed up people are with everything… Politics as usual, the Clinton’s insensitivity and criminal history, and I think the media and Hollywood telling everyone how to vote and think! Voting for Trump doesn’t mean you are racist as I keep hearing, maybe you like his policies better than Clinton’s!

    • Will

      Exactly, this! Tossing around the term racism far too often means it has lost all basis in reality.

      • kevins

        Interesting rationalization..saying this means it doesn’t exist.

    • Jerry

      His racist policies?

    • RBHolb

      Matt, what policies? He had an uncanny ability to spout platitudes,but when you get right down to it, no one really knows what he stands for.

      You will have to admit that a lot of his appeal came from his willingness to insult other demographics (some people call that not being restrained by political correctness).

    • Rob

      It’s one thing to feel fed up and angry, it’s another to vote for someone who doesn’t give a rat’s heinie about anyone but himself, and who will do nothing to address the real problems of those voting their fear and anger. Emotion-based voting usually doesn’t turn out well, and it’s true this year — in spades. If you’re unclear on the notion of what T.Rump voters have unleashed on our country, look up the word “kakistocracy.”

    • Rob

      Articulate just one coherent policy that Trump has espoused

      • Duke Powell

        Enforce our immigration laws.

  • Gary F

    I’d like the people who were feeling the Bern say what they think of all this? Who did they vote for? Hillary, Stein, Johnson or Trump? What is your opinion now about how the DNC meddled in the primaries?

    • Noelle

      I’m unbelievably disappointed and of course wondered what the results would have been had Bernie won the nomination. I proudly voted for Hillary.

      This is a hard lesson in the fact that we direly need election reform.

      • Gary F

        And do what?
        I’m for a time limit. Not sure what else could be constitutional.

        • Noelle

          The electoral college clearly needs a second look.

          • Gary F

            No, then 1/2 the states wouldn’t even matter. Delaware, Maine, RI, Vermont, Hawaii, wouldn’t have a say in the election.

          • Leroy

            The way it’s currently setup is you have a larger voice if you live in a small state.

            Do away with the electoral college, and instead we all have equal voices regardless of where we choose to live. The downside is what happens when the election is crazy close? A national recount?

          • Noelle

            I think a vote should be a vote, regardless of the state it came from.

          • Gary F

            The the people in about half the states won’t even matter. Including MN.

          • Noelle

            I voted for Hillary. She won the popular vote.

            But my vote didn’t matter enough.

          • Gary F

            She won Minnesota. Better go back a refresh your knowledge the electoral college and balance of powers.

          • Noelle

            It just doesn’t make sense to me to elect at the state level rather than the voter level.

            And you don’t have to be mean about it.

          • Rob

            I agree; large state or small shouldn’t matter; it’s a nation-level vote and should be treated as such.

          • Jeff

            That would be a great start. Wyoming gets 3 electoral votes, we get 10 but we have 10x the population. So voters in Wyoming have about 3 times the influence we do. But like most things will never happen since the electoral college gives small states disproportional representation and they would never give it up.

        • Zachary

          Here’s how you fix the EC:

          Each state adopts a system like Nebraska and Maine. The Winner in each Congressional District gets 1 Electoral Vote. The Winner of the Statewide totals gets the State’s 2 votes.

          This would allow for “Wrong Color” voters in a state to still have a voice. This would encourage Minor Parties to focus on areas where they could win, and even if someone lives in a Wrong Color state, they might make a difference in their district. Votes would no longer be competing on a state level – but a district level.

          • Rob

            I propose fixing the anti-democratic EC by eliminating it entirely.

          • DavidG

            That just increases the impact of gerrymandering the Congressional districts. In all likelihood, we’d see even more and greater disparate splits between the popular and electoral votes.

            As it stands, the last couple of cycles, the Democrats have actually received much greater total votes for Congress at a national level, yet are still in the minority because of the way district boundaries are drawn.

    • RBHolb

      I think most of them voted for Hillary, albeit reluctantly.

    • Rob

      Tell you what — let’s focus instead on how the Republican-dominated state governments, espically in the South, engaged in minority voter suppression.

      • Gary F

        Got some links?

        • Rob

          Nov. 8 Atlantic article: House Republicans in North Carolina Knowingly Suppressed Voting

          • Gary F

            I would have thought the Clinton News Network, CNN would have covered it then,

          • Rob

            Try the Rolling Stone also

          • Gary F

            You mean the company that just lost a big lawsuit over fabricating stories?

          • Rob

            They lost one lawsuit regarding one story being fabricated.

    • Ben Chorn

      I voted for Bernie in the primary and Johnson in the election.

      I’ve dealt with a few people telling me my vote didn’t matter, 3rd party voters voted Trump, and I’ve had Facebook comments deleted for saying I voted 3rd party.

  • sgigs

    Perhaps those that held back their vote yesterday are regretting it today.

  • Zachary

    I’ve been saying this for over 16 years – and I will keep saying it. I proudly voted my conscience, I cast my ballot for the person who best represented my views, outlooks and governance philosophies. And, even though he did not win – I will sleep soundly, knowing that I did the best I could do. I did not compromise my beliefs, I did not choose a lesser evil. I did my best, now it is up to us – we the people – to “petition the Government for a redress of grievances”.

    WE have to make our wishes known – WE have to maintain the lines of communication to allow for such conversations to be had. Conversations don’t happen when people yell at each other. Just because someone has a different view on something, doesn’t necessarily mean they are “wrong”. They just have a different view on it. Pointing fingers, blame, name-calling, law-breaking, these things do not unite us. We Are Human. We Are Americans.

    My hope and prayer in all of this, is that those elected will follow the will of the people, and hold themselves accountable, not only to those who selected them, but also for those who didn’t. Wisdom and Understanding to all, elected and unelected.

    Of the people, for the people, by the people.

    That being said, I think there now comes a time to reevaluate the whole Electoral College and primary systems. Winner-Takes-All no longer really represents the population at-large. When vast amounts of votes “don’t actually count for anything” that is a problem. When the choice of nominees is dictated by a select few in only a few select areas, that is a problem. When a single state controls more “electoral power” then you have in your own neighborhood – that is a problem.

    I will everyone a Most Happy Wednesday – Happy Hump Day! I’d link to a picture of a camel smiling, or a cat doing something cute, or maybe a rainbow on a sunny day, but I don’t really know how to make that happen, so use your imagination. Maybe you can picture all three at once.


    • Dan

      Did you view Trump and Clinton as equal outcomes?

      • Zachary

        Equal how? I viewed it as “my vote WILL NOT matter” and chose to vote accordingly.

        • Dan

          Don’t be obtuse, equal as in, the country would be equally better or worse off if Clinton or Trump won.

          Did you see presidential election results in Minnesota? Pretty close. Hard to say anyone’s vote didn’t matter, unless they didn’t want it to.

          • Zachary

            Equal in that “They Equally Do Not Represent Me as Another Candidate Does”. That is all. True – Minnesota was closer than expected. This may affect how I act in the next cycle. I made my vote matter – I chose the candidate that I matched up most with. A vote otherwise is not what voting should represent.

          • Dan

            A friend of mine managed a small office with mostly low-skill, low-wage workers – low education and a lot of turnover. One successful year, they decided to reward the employees with an outing, and they were given three choices — Wild Game, Twins Game, Valleyfair (scare?). Everyone was supposed to stand in a part of the office that correlated with their choice. Let’s say, 3 were standing by “Twins Game”, 4 by “Wild Game”, and 5 by “Vallyfair”. At some point, the “Game” people noticed they were on their way to an amusement park, the Twins people talked with the Wild people, moved spots, and that was that.

            My friend used that analogy with Nader/Bush/Gore for years. “If these people can figure it out, why can’t people who are supposedly educated?” Setting aside whether there could be some people who love Minneapolis and just hate St Paul or something, it makes some sense. Polls have just recently shown some serious flaws, but they’re not completely baseless.

            There are plenty of changes to the election system that could be made, e.g., ranked choice. But I don’t stop in the middle of a game of pool, chuck the 8-ball against the wall, and say “well, the object SHOULD be whoever gets the 8 ball off the table first”. Our current electoral system for presidents is about the worst place to vote for long shots or write-in candidates.

            I’m not sure where the notion that making yourself feel good is what voting is “supposed” to be about. Voting is about choosing someone for elected office. The results give people real power, which affects everyone.

            Like I alluded to, though, if you think Trump and Clinton were about the same, then it’s whatevers. I don’t see it that way, but then roughly half the country’s voters actively preferred Trump.

          • Zachary

            I understand what you are saying. I respect however you chose to vote. I’m not demonizing anyone for however they came to the decision they did.

            I treat voting as choosing someone to represent me. Since I cannot serve in all the areas of government that affect me (whether that’s a Homeowner’s Association, or School Board or County Commissioner or President) I choose, from a list of people willing to serve in those positions, someone who will represent me, and have similar goals and objectives. Others can choose someone who represents them. No one (other than myself) is going to match up 100%. That is weighted and accounted for in my decision. What trade-offs am I willing to accept to get the best representation?

            Maybe my logic is flawed, but to me at least – I am not picking a winner as one might do for a horse race or in a football game. My goal is not to have a batting percentage of 1.000 when it comes to voting. My goal is to pick someone to represent me. Whether or not that person Wins or Loses I made my decision. I am not willing to compromise my voice in support of someone who does not, (or will not) represent me.

            Ranked choice would be the best option to help clean up the system. Having more than two “major parties” would help as well. Likewise, a restructuring of the Electoral College. The Governors SHOULD represent the views of the Governed. As often happens (across the board, in all facets) once someone has Power, they tend to not let it go (absolute power, corruption, etc, yadda-yadda) and the Governors become so fearful of losing said Power – that they become unwilling to “work for all”. Even when “The Majority” has NOT elected them (darn you plurality voting!).

            This is one of the major reasons I chose who I chose. My Vote = Me. Others have that same power, so I have no qualms about not choosing for others. Your Vote = You. But ultimately, all elected officials, are accountable to US!

            I stand by my vote, (and my obligation to cast as such) – whether it “mattered or not” as my choice. It was not for sale, it was not forced, and it was not unduly influenced by forces other than my own views, opinions and experiences. It was chosen freely and with great research. If you cast your vote for someone who did not represent you, I pity you. I don’t hate, or malign, or even mildly dislike you. But you have my sympathy. We are all in this together. WE. US. You and Me.


      • BJ

        Tell me which policy positions they are not equal or close on?

        Because neither one did much talking about policy.

        Who said what:

        1A: We have to protect Americans’ civil liberties. And we have to discover and disrupt terrorist plots before they can be carried out. That’s why I support the bipartisan USA Freedom Act recently signed into law, which protects privacy while giving our intelligence and law enforcement agencies what they need to can keep us safe.

        1B: When it comes to the balancing security and privacy, we should err on the side of security. We should restore Patriot Act provisions enabling metadata collection for anti-terror surveillance with court controlled access, scrutinize social media of those seeking to enter the US, and limit the ability of ISIS to use the internet to spread terrorism.

        2A: Reduce individual rates to three brackets of 12, 25, and 33 percent, with a 0 percent rate for many. Add above-the-line deduction for childcare costs, including for stay-at-home parents.

        2B: I’m going to fix that. I’ll close corporate tax loopholes and make sure millionaires and billionaires can’t pay lower rates than middle-class families. And I’ll give tax relief to working families who are struggling with costs from college to health care.

        3A: My plan will strengthen Medicare by reducing health care costs, enhance and protect Social Security for future generations by asking the wealthiest to contribute more, and expand benefits for widows and those who took time out of the paid workforce to care for a child or sick family member.

        3b: Preserve Medicare for future generations. No changes to promised Social Security benefits.

        4A: Everyone in America should respect the law and be respected by the law. We need to end mass incarceration, use strategies like police body cameras to improve accountability, increase substance abuse treatment, and aim resources at criminals who pose the greatest threat.

        4B: Crime and violence is an attack on everyone—particularly the poor—and is unacceptable. We will have strong, swift fair law and order.

        • Dan

          “Tell me which policy positions they are not equal or close on?”

          SCOTUS appointments, climate science, science funding, consumer protections, trade agreements, environmental protection just to start. Also torture, apparently. Hard to believe it’s a serious question, even harder when followed by a list of copypasta cherry picked quotes.

    • Postal Customer

      Congratulations on not choosing the lesser of two evils. That will certainly serve us well in the days ahead.

      • Zachary

        Would knowing the outcome ahead of time change your vote?

  • Jeff

    I have trouble reconciling that about half the country has fundamentally different values than I do and essentially contrary to what this country is supposed to be about.

    • John

      What I find most interesting about your comment is that it expresses a feeling that I think nearly all of the country is feeling right now (or at least the parts that are prone to reflection).

  • ALEX

    So I have been looking at multiple exit polls from past elections for a class project, and looking between the 2008 (most in depth) and the 2016 it is really interesting some of the data, one example for gender in 2008 48% of men voted for McCain, compared to 53% of men who voted for Trump, if you want to look deeper the first link is for 2016 and the second is a chart going back to 1972. Also note the 2016 has info more related to this election where the other has demographic info for past elections

  • jon

    Thomas Jefferson got it wrong when he said ” “Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%.””

    Apparently it’s more of a 48/48 split (with 3% for johnson and 1% for stien)

  • Mike Worcester

    If one looks at a map and sees where the state house and senate seats flipped control (with many incumbents losing), there is an interesting correlation between geography and demographic characteristics of those districts.

    Also look at how close the races were for Tim Walz (CD1) and Collin Peterson (CD7). Both ran against essentially Some Dudes, and barely won.

  • DavidG

    The people who say “It will all be alright” mostly speak from a place of privilege where they don’t have to fear being attacked or having their rights stripped form them for being gay, or Muslim, or disabled, or a person of color, or anything other than a white person.

  • KTFoley

    There are a whole lot of Facebook messages today about kindness and forgiveness. I feel like I’m hearing an alcoholic’s family member pleading for us to ignore the recent unpleasantness, without addressing the whole drink thing that brought it on in the first place. So peace is lovely, but we need to talk about passivity now.

    So many people are exclaiming about how they’re blindsided by the racism and bigotry. You know who I’m not hearing that from? The people who have been experiencing it firsthand. The people who’ve been telling us how they experience it firsthand. The people who have been seeing us respond as though their firsthand experience wasn’t real or valid.

    Our friends and neighbors of color – and those who are raising children of color – probably don’t need our make-nice sentiment as much as they need us all to put more steel in our spine and more ferocity in our effort to keep this elected President from compounding the personal & institutional racism already present in their daily lives. Same for our community of women, immigrants, LGBT, disabled, Muslims, other faiths. Same for our environment. Same for all our children.

    Lincoln waited until the Civil War’s end was in sight to urge the binding up of the country’s wounds. The war of racism & bigotry is still being waged on the people around us. In the words of Paul Wellstone: Stand up. Keep fighting.

    • Ben

      Ziwe on Twitter puts this nicely in a response to Bernie Sanders’ comment that he doesn’t believe most of the people voting for Trump are racist or sexist. She says “It’s crazy how no one is racist, but racism exists.”

      • Rob

        Bernie’ s comments are off base, fo’ sho’.

  • Jasper

    Another election stolen by the electoral college.

    • Rob

      American Exceptionalism at its finest.

    • Jeff

      Trump University

  • Kassie

    While I’m horrified and saddened with the result, I also see so much over reaction from my liberal friends. I feel like just as the conservatives felt like Obama would take away their guns, which of course he didn’t, the liberals are way overreaching on the predictions of what a Trump Presidency means.

    The other thing I’m seeing from my Democrat friends that is bugging me is that they are blaming everyone but themselves. Democrats themselves and their party leaders are the ones who put a candidate up who couldn’t beat Trump. Blaming third parties, white people, the electoral collage, or whatever isn’t getting to the heart of the matter, which is that their candidate was terrible and she ran a bad campaign.

    • >>While I’m horrified and saddened with the result, I also see so much over reaction from my liberal friends. I feel like just as the conservatives felt like Obama would take away their guns, which of course he didn’t, the liberals are way overreaching on the predictions of what a Trump Presidency means.<<

      A Trump Presidency and GOP Congress doesn't mean additional conservative Supreme Court justices or a blank check to pretty much do whatever they want to do politically?

      Because I'm pretty sure that just may be the case, and it may damage this country for decades.

    • Will

      What did Obama accomplish in 8 years? Obamacare, which forces people to buy a product against their will and it’s disaster of exploding prices. That’s enough to try something new.

      • Jerry

        Well thank god I can kiss my health insurance goodbye

      • kevins

        Gas prices? Drill baby…

      • Postal Customer

        Four things that come to mind right now

        1. Pre-existing conditions and lifetime maximum

        2. Pushed the FCC for net neutrality

        3. Pushed the FDA to ban trans fats

        4. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

        Oh, and to those people complaining about high costs of Obamacare, enjoy having no insurance at all. Because that is what they will get.

        I sincerely hope they’re happy.

        • Jerry

          #1 is going to hurt a lot of people, especially those who think they don’t need insurance.

      • Anybody have an idea of what that might be? Or do we go back to square one and start debating whether people should even be able to get health care? Or lose it when they change jobs with a pre-existing condition. Weird that that specific debate never happened, because Democrats refused to put up a fight for specifics when faced with being for “Obamacare.”

        As Bruno so aptly put it in the famous West Wing monologue when he begged the administration to grow a pair — pardon the indelicate language — instead they campaigned/governed with an attitude of “Please don’t hurt me.”

        It was illogical to expect people to reject a candidate who at least gave the impression — by at least saying so — that he was fighting for something when the Democrat candidates were so utterly gunshy to put up the kind of bare-knuckles fight that politics requires.

        Health care for people who didn’t have access to it was THE signature issue for the Democrats, and they were afraid to defend the concept. Absolutely, deathly afraid. Because they LET their competition define it.

        It wouldn’t have been political suicide to say premiums are too high or that it needed fixing (quote me nothing about GOP bills to eliminate it; that has nothing to do with how you campaign on it) if you can make a case for the underlying reason an attempt was made in the first place to provide health care access to people who couldn’t get it.

        At least then you actually HAVE a battle of ideas. And there’s nothing wrong with that. There SHOULD be a knock-down, drag-out battle over specific ideas so that people can understand what the choice is they’ve been given.

        People voted against high insurance premiums. They didn’t vote against the idea of letting people die. The Democrats awful strategy didn’t give people any other choice. They own that.

        Campaigning on “I’m not my opponent” isn’t a sound strategy. Actually making a solid case and defense of what you stand for still counts for something.

        If you do that and then you lose, well, that’s the way it goes; the people have spoken. But not to even try to put up a fight over the issue, or try to define it the way you needed to define it? That’s just unforgivable for a politician.

        • jon

          Am I the only one who pictured Bruno when anyone talked about Paul Mansfield in this election?

        • Jeff

          I honestly don’t think most people are interested in a battle of ideas. They just want to hear what reinforces their world view. All they heard was Big Government is dictating their health care and it’s a disaster.

          • Well, since they didn’t get a battle of ideas, how would we know? If people are only told one thing, sure, that’s what they’re going to believe. Tell ’em two things. Make ’em work to figure it out.

          • Will

            I agree voters can respect and understand single payer, the hybrid Obamacare system is so messy and filled with requirements and loopholes that the average voter sees it as too complex to support. Then add in those crazy prices a few weeks before an election and you have an all out rejection of Obamacare.

        • DavidG

          But Clinton DID put forward policy ideas. A lot of hem. She even delivered speeches targeted to each policy area.

          The problem is, it got drowned out by Trump’s daily push against the bounds of offensiveness.

    • jon

      there is some exaggerating… most of it based on what Trump himself has said…. things like “get rid of common core”
      Well.. that’s a state level thing so the president really has no say in it…

      Of even the insurance companies across state lines as a fix all for everything that ails you….

      But there are something that are going to happen… and I suspect one of them is going to be trickle down economics, round 3 the re-re-trickling… new tax code and tax breaks for the rich, and more taxes for the middle class, run up the deficit because no one cares about deficits when republicans are in power… and our president elect gave himself the title “king of debt”…

      As for the DFL candidate… she could have run a better campaign…. but that’s been a complaint since July that she has failed to really drive her issues home.

    • Rob

      I’m putting the blame squarely where it belongs — on the people who voted for T.Rump. Nobody held a gun to their heads.

    • Jeffrey

      My thoughts exactly. Maybe this election will wake up the Democrats and make them realize that they need earn to votes.

    • Jeff

      I’m old enough to remember when Reagan got elected and we thought the world had come to an end. We were pretty much right.

    • Dan

      I’m seeing a bunch of my liberal friends acting shocked and outraged about Trump winning, when yesterday they were acting like Trump and Clinton was a “six of one, half dozen of the other” situation.

      As far as what a Trump presidency means, realistically –
      Supreme Court is controlled by the Right for a generation. McConnell’s running out the clock maneuver on Obama pays off. Besides the obvious Roe v Wade potentially being overturned, the voting rights act will be further gutted, so get used to more voter id laws, school admissions preferences being tossed out, and more. Recent LGBT court victories likewise threatened, almost certainly no further progress in the courts, especially after the next Justice exits. Citizens United is permanent.
      Title IX guidelines, e.g. for sexual assault on campus – I would expect some changes there.
      Oil pipelines – coming through ¯_(ツ)_/¯
      Climate science funding – gutted
      Environmental protections – gutted
      Trade agreements – who knows what will actually happen there. Protectionism isn’t squarely a right/left concern. I’m unconvinced we’ll see a resurgence of American manufacturing as a result of anything Trump does or doesn’t do, but trade wars could hurt the economy severely.
      National security – who knows. NATO weakened? Hard to see positives.

      Lots more of course, including rolling back of FCC / net neutrality regulations, and pretty much anything Obama did in his second term via executive action.

      Also, Obamacare probably gone, and while it wasn’t all that great anyway, what it will be “replaced” with might not be so great either.

      If you see any of this as overreaching please let me know.

      • Will

        Sounds like a good step in the right direction, jobs, taxes, infrastructure and removal of Obamacare are the biggest issues…most of those issues you’re concerned about above don’t register as all that important for the vast majority of Trump voters.

        • Dan

          Pretty sure Kassie and I weren’t talking about people who were Trump voters, but thanks for your input. “Jobs”.

    • DavidG

      Obama never promised to take away guns.
      Trump has actually said he wants to deport your immigrant friends. He’s actually promised to appoint judges that would take away your reproductive rights, and strip your gay friends of marriage equality.

      Those differences mean I’m not going to be dismissive of my friends’ fears, even if I myself, as a white guy am likely to not be one of his targets.

      (although, given Marlee Matlin’s experience, I’m sure as a deaf person, I’d be a target of his mockery.)

      • Kassie

        I understand that. Trump has also said he is Pro-Life and Pro-Choice. He has been for and against gay marriage. He has changed his mind so many times on so many things it is hard to keep track. Trump is a liar and we don’t actually know what he will do.

        I’m just saying that people are making outrageous claims who mocked people on the other side who did the same thing just 8 years ago.

        • DavidG

          Your friends are reacting to things promised on the campaign trail. In the last month. In ’08 and ’12 republicans were reacting to things Obama never said. In his whole life.

          Combined with the openly hostile behavior exhibited by Trump rally attendees, I don’t think it’s outrageous for people that have been targeted by Trump to be scared. Whether Trump personally believes what he’s saying or not.

    • Dan

      Regarding the terrible candidate, I supported Obama in the 2008 primary because, among other things, he wasn’t Hillary Clinton. My thinking it was more realpolitik than anything; while I preferred Obama generally anyway, and found him a clear thinker, I was particularly passionate (donating money etc) because I didn’t think Clinton would win in the general. Conservatives had, over the years, invested millions and untold hours making her into the devil, and after 8 years of George W Bush, I saw the election as too critical to risk Clinton not being able to overcome all those hard-fought negatives.

      The primary campaign was grueling, long and nasty, but in the end, most Hillary Clinton supporters came around and voted Obama.

      It seems like Clinton couldn’t get some of the Obama voters back, however.

    • Brian Simon

      You’re absolutely right on the blame game, same as Gore. They blamed Nader instead of figuring out why Gore couldn’t get those voters. The HRC campaign had no idea how to connect with the Bernie supporters, which represent a huge constituency. They had no idea how to connect with the stagnating middle/working class.

  • Erick

    The only things I am worried about are – in no particular order – the environment, civil rights, foreign affairs, reproductive rights, civil discourse, privacy rights, the militarization of the police, the coarsening of society, education, the corrupting influence of big money on politics and government, the increasing wealth gap, the demonization of the other, …oh, and did I mention the environment?

    • Rob

      Me, too. I think the Canadian government/immigration info sites are probably still a little swamped, but I for one will be checking them out later today… : )

  • Kurt O

    It would be interesting to see post-election polls to find out who people say they voted for. It probably won’t match the actual results. A lot of pundits will say it’s because of poor design, but I think it comes down to people will say what they think you want to hear even if it’s not what they really believe. Not just in politics, but in all aspects of life.

    I had a roommate who was an ardent vegetarian. He held vegan dinner parties and advocated the whole lifestyle. One day I came home and saw him hunched over in his car. He was mawing down a greasy cheeseburger and fries from Rally’s. To me it’s not about hypocracy, it’s just that what he really wanted wasn’t aligned with how he wanted to be perceived.

    Another roommate of mine was a vegetarian 95% percent of the time, but he openly admitted he loved having a good steak dinner a few times a year. Doesn’t make him a better or worse person. He just didn’t care what other people think.

  • Rob

    Just a heads-up: There’s an excellent Garrison Kiellor opinion piece in today’s Washington Post, entitled “Trump voters will not like what happens next”

  • Postal Customer

    Can we please stop calling this the greatest country in the world? Because it isn’t. Not by a long shot, and it hasn’t been for quite some time.

    Several takeaways for me this election:

    1. Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate. She ran a poor campaign. She was the wrong person at the wrong time. The DNC fumbled this too. Badly. I’m glad DWS is gone, but it was too little too late.

    2. She had no message. David Brooks was harping on this for months. She didn’t give anyone a reason to vote FOR her; only that she’s not Trump. Americans won’t vote against things, only for them. 2004 election showed that. Obama had a message. Clinton had nothing.

    3. The very people who put Trump into office are going to be surprised when he does nothing for them. He will do nothing for them.

    4. Nate Cohn’s piece back in June is haunting me. Basically, the Obama coalition was much whiter than most realized (especially across the rust belt and great lakes), meaning it was also fragile.

    5. Evidently being the first female president wasn’t enough for the vast
    numbers of women who are JUST FINE AND DANDY with Donald Trump grabbing
    them somewhere. You know who you are. You own this guy. Enjoy!

    6. The number of things Trump said and did that didn’t kill his campaign. It blows my mind ten times.

    • Postal Customer

      7. Trump voters, like Brexit voters, have absolutely no idea what they voted for.

      • Anna

        The Brexit voters have Parliament to deal with and the British Parliament has yet to weigh in on the issue.

        They have an escape hatch. We don’t.

    • Mike Worcester

      If I may, #8 — the number of self-professed “Evangelical” voters who cast their ballots for a serial misogynistic whose behaviours were at times appalling, but hey, Family Values and all…..

      Great list and ty 🙂

      • Bob Sinclair

        And as a Christian it saddens me that many who profess this faith couldn’t/wouldn’t see through this.

        • jon


          He is hitting at least 6 out of 7…. but the other candidate used emails in a manner consistent with how the previous administration used them!

          • Anna

            The 7th “deadly” sin is Pride as in “Pride goeth before a fall.”

            Do half nude modeling pictures count?

    • Jeff

      Hindsight is 20/20. I’m not sure I agree with #1 and #2. #1: I doubt Bernie would have done much better running against Trump and who else was there a year and a half ago? Maybe Warren, but she didn’t seem all that interested. O’Malley and Webb fell by the wayside pretty quickly after Hilary blistered them in the debates. #2: The message was four more years of building on a popular President’s policies. Of course that didn’t work for Gore either.

      #3: One promise he can keep – ripping Michelle’s garden out. Just needs to send his kids out back with some shovels.

    • Jerry

      America is a deeply selfish country. It’s always been a deeply selfish country. It’s basically the subtext to our founding myth.

  • Daniel Heu

    Well, at least my fiance and I know what year we’ll plan to have kids. Protip: The Tokyo Summer Olympic games.

  • boB from WA

    Given that majijuana is legal out here on the Left Coast, maybe I’ll just stay high for the next 4 years. 🙂

  • Dan

    Among many other things, this rattled into my head earlier today: Cuba. What next? Obama policies reversed, and we’re back to 1960?

  • KTN

    I remember a bumper sticker back when I was a kid, this would have been during the Nixon administration, it read:
    Lee Harvey, where are you when we need you?

    Seem like I might need to get me one of those

  • Will
  • Katharine

    There is no hope. I have no hope. Every time I think there might be a glimmer of hope, I realize x, y, or z and the hope is shattered. (Republican congress, Trump-appointed justice, etc.) The fifty years of progress we made as a country is gone in an instant. At its core, we live in an extremely racist country and the majority of people think that’s okay. I have no interest in sharing citizenship with these people. I do not recognize my own country, nor do I think I will be particularly welcome in it in a few months. And if none of that scares you, the idea that this man has access to nuclear codes should.

    We are finished as a country. This is it. Done. The next step is civil war. I do not know what to do. I cannot live here but it isn’t so easy to just up and move to another country. And to stay and fight? We’ve been fighting for fifty years! No! The fight is over!!! WE. LOST. Bigotry is what this nation is, was, and always will be. FACE IT.

  • Carl Crabkiller

    What surprises me is how wrong the pundits were – almost all were predicting the end of the Republican party. The phrase “death spiral” comes to mind. Now it appears they strengthened their power.

    • Jerry

      The thing is, the Republican Party that existed up until recently is pretty much dead. The party of George Will, William Buckley, and the Mitt Romney no longer exists. It has been replaced by populist party that values close-mindedness and ignorance. It is the final takeover of the party by the southern Dixiecrats. They used to look down on Democrats as the party of the mob. Now they are the party of the mob.

  • Katharine

    This is our Iranian Revolution. It’s been forty years and they still haven’t recovered from that yet. America is now a failed state.

  • Khatti

    Um….after having read some of what’s gone before I’ve decided to just sit this conversation out.