If your local government has to make severe cuts in services, where should it start?

Around Minnesota, local officials and the citizens they represent are grappling with hard choices involving public services and shrinking budgets. Today’s Question: If your local government has to make severe cuts in services, where should it start?

  • Hiram

    State colleges and universities located in the districts of Republican legislators.

  • Andrew

    The last cut should be education. It would be nice to have some thinkers around to clean-up the messes made by current government officials. So for a first place to cut: the salaries of current government officials.

  • Dan

    Service cuts must only come after trimming the city workforce back to the point that all employees are working full, productive workdays again. Our local communities are attempting to make services cuts *before* demanding efficiencies.

  • James

    I would look very carefully at the police and fire budgets in Eden Prairie.

    Our poulation is about 60,000.

    A quick look in the parking lot at the police headquarters suggests we have about 30 police cars…all new or newish. Chargers. Suburbans. Etc. Plus an anti-terrorism vehicle that is about the size of a Greyhound bus. That would seem to be about 1 vehicle for every 2 officers.

    Also, a while ago, my neighbor had a small house fire. 11 emergency vehicles showed up. By then we had put the fire out with a garden hose. Again, we may be a little over provisioned.

    Let’s start there.

  • GaryF

    Have you seen the new Segway type machines that Minneapolis police force has?

    I wonder what they cost?

  • Adam

    Higher taxes on people who can afford it. I’d rather have my taxes go up than have cuts in vital services.

  • Chuck

    In Anoka County they could certainly cut back on the widening of County 14 (Main street). Park maintenance could be cut back. The Sheriff’s Department has a hugh new facility that requires significant maintenance and we don’t need a new city owned ice arena and civic center in Coon Rapids.

  • Emery

    I would encourage sharing services such as local police and fire where it’s feasible.

    Although my pet peeve is: tax subsidies that are used to attract business’ and manufacturing to locate in local, county or the out-state areas. Job Z comes to mind. Remove tax subsidies and other forms of corporate welfare before we nickel and dime local government.

  • Bonnie Lokenvitz

    I purpose eliminating the Minnesota Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission. How many tax dollars support those guys?

  • david

    All legislator’s pay and perks should be cut first. I think it’s time they be on par with the average fast food/service/retail employee; minimum wage, no insurance, no nothing. The average fast food employee works way harder and deserve more then any politician I’ve seen in a long time.

  • uptownZombie

    Stick to the question people.

    I hate to say it but if anything had to be cut we would probably have to start with anything sports/arts/leisure. They may be critical to our psychological well being, but they are absolutely not critical to our functioning government.

    On the same topic, how about cutting down the money spent on sports in our primary education system. Stick to things that will actually help you through life (math, literature, social studies, …) and cut down on excess spending. Thereby we can reduce costs in education without impacting the educational process for 95% of the students in the system

  • Larry M.

    Cut road construction in areas that voted republican in state elections that led to cuts in Local Government Aid (LGA).

  • Bill Stuber

    End the practice of putting poisonous fluoride in water. Cities actually pay money to put this toxic waste in our water to harm people.

  • Jesse

    I think David is on to something. Legislator’s pay and benefits should be more in line with the average working man or woman’s wages in the current economy. Perhaps they could relate much better to the working families in MN.

  • Steve the Cynic

    Let’s see… “Local” government doesn’t include many of the things people are mentioning here. Schools districts are separate entities from cities and counties. State colleges and universities are not under local government. And JOBZ (is that failed program still around?) is a state thing, too.

    Probably the dumbest idea that keeps getting proposed whenever severe budget cuts are needed is slashing compensation for elected officials. First, it’s almost always a tiny fraction of the problem, and at best has some minor symbolic value. Second, underpaying elected officials makes graft and corruption more tempting. You want their pay to be high enough that the risk of losing it is a sufficient deterrent to accepting a bribe. Third, you wnat to give really talented people more incentive to seek elective office. When competent, civic-minded people can’t afford to make a decent living with a career in public service but have to sell their talents to the highest bidder, the public loses.

  • Silence KimMN

    KimMN must still be asleep or hung over. We haven’t heard yet that all of our local funding problems would already be solved of only Obama had been born in the US.

    Can’t wait to hear!

  • Steve the Cynic

    Wow! I didn’t realize there were still folks around who believed the fluoride conspiracy theory. If that old canard is coming back, I shudder to think what kind of illogic is going to be driving public opinion in the 2012 election.

  • Tim

    Let’s start with police, fire, garbage collection, water and sewer. Then maybe we will elect people who understand that you need to pay for what you get.

  • david

    That may be true in some perfect world Steve, that political pay would reduce corruption. Unfortunately corruption is already rampant and out in the open because of 501(c) super PACs. It would appear politicians pay amounts to nothing compared to the unlimited campaign contributions and the ability to spend that money on anything remotely dubbed “normal administration expenses.” WE have to cut, THEY DO NOT. That’s BS.

    Come on MPR, start asking the right questions and start doing that independent, non-corporate influenced journalism our donations are supposedly paying for.

  • Steve the Cynic

    I’m not talking about a perfect world, david. I’m talking about this one. Believe it or not, there really are people of integrity who wouldn’t want to take bribes. But if we pay elected officials less than what would enable them to live comfortably without accepting graft, we increase the likelihood of corruption. It’s like door locks on your house. It’s not going to deter the really determined crooks, but it will help keep honest people honest. By any objective measure, American government has less outright corruption than most of the rest of the world. We will never eliminate corruption completely, but underpaying elected officials only encourages it.

  • kimMN

    Over the past three years, when ever cuts are mentioned, it seems the liberlas use the ” If you don’t give us more, we will have to cut teachers, police and firefighters.” Really??

    With all the billions in waste within state and federal agencies, the first thing they threaten to cut are the very necessary services government is required to provide! We never hear them threatening to cut dog parks , the new bike trails created from taking away of 20% of transportation fuel taxes, or the subsidies to grossly corrupt agencies like ACORN ( now re-badged as “Communities for Change” after being caught for voter registration fraud and funneling kids to use Planned Parenthood for abortions with tax payer dollars.

    The Occupy Wall street protests have cost many communities hundreds of thousands of dollars to police the protesters mess. Minneapolis has been saddled with over a $300,000 projected cost to the city . If officials had not allowed an over night camp in, less would have been wasted in tax payer costs.

  • kimMN

    Most should know by now that many communities across the country can no longer afford to pay the exorbitant pension funds for the public unions.

    When unions refuse to negotiate these costs, communities have to cut back. The very unions that say they are here for”the kids” are the same ones that have top leaders making in excess of $350,000 from union dues and they are the same ones that refused to reduce pension deals preferring to see teachers being cut to preserve the excessive pensions for others.

    Why is it that the most liberal states like MN, MA, IL, and California have the highest state debt and face bankruptcy? And hundreds of business have left California and relocated to Texas in the past three years… liberal states eventually over tax and over regulate to the point they threaten to cut necessary services to scare the public into accepting even higher taxes to pay for the ludicrous entitlement services and special interest projects.

  • Allie

    Not public health, please. Local health departments are strapped, as it is. Prevention is cost-effective!

  • kimMN

    As long as service cuts are discussed MN folks should also know that Obama’s class warfare strategy that he has openly spewed since 2004 does not help solve the problem, especially when his allocating 32 billion from his second stimulus for bad Energy dept loans, such as Solyndra, Beacon and Sunpower fiascos. Obama’s class warfare tactic is took right out of the Marxist Saul Alinkski handbook , “Rules for Radicals”…. it is well explained by chapter two.

    Obama’s formula says that anyone earning over $320,000 a year as many surgeons and dentists might earn, are in that 1% group that the protesters rally against. And those fools camping out have no idea of the cost in time and money to get to that status…few get a free ride to college and med school yet the protesters demand they should spread their wealth with them, as they live off others??? amazing.

  • Jean Hay

    Salaries. From the top down, government officials should cut their own compensation before declaring that there is not enough money to do the work of governing.

  • kimMN

    Services do not need to be cut for our essential departments of fire and police. The state needs to STOP giving our tax dollars to support corrupt or radical anti-american groups such as ACORN. Our tax dollars do not need to be freely given to Planned Parenthood, which BTW, uses a name so far removed from what they do..planning parenthood? really? They should be honest and call themselves “Planned Abortions” or ” Plan to avoid becoming a parent when a pregnancy is just too darn inconvenient”. Do states really need to fund these groups for the benefit of a minority that wants excess entitlements? I am Pro choice….women CHOOSE the risk of becoming pregant when they first climb into bed. Choosing to kill a human in the fetus stage is still choosing to kill.

    Choosing to cut necessary community services when they refuse to cut the waste and abuse of programs is pathetic but it works for their tactic to keep piling on higher taxes and more programs to keep more people on the government dole, they make good democratic voters in order to keep their free ride.

  • Steve the Cynic

    KimMN, it’s considered good form, when copying and pasting words that are not your own, to put quotation marks around it and cite the source.

  • david

    OK then, if they want some immediate local spending cuts, how about stop arresting and an harassing peaceful protesters.

  • Jason

    Steve T.C. – I can’t believe you are suggesting paying elected officials enough so that they stay off the take. I don’t believe this is the level of morality we are to assume these people have.

    Is one’s vulnerability to corruption commensurate with compensation? Don’t they operate under some kind of moral imperative, you know, pretty much like everyone else should?

  • Steve the Cynic

    Jason, if you want to see what happens when public officials are underpaid, go to just about any developing country and try to get some government service without paying a bribe. Slashing public servants’ salaries in a time of budget crisis is penny wise and pound foolish.

  • GregX

    I think the frist place to cut is the limitations on how cities can use/adapt/re-allocate funding. Government is ham-strung by the rigidity of rules based funding assignment and byzantine accounting.

  • GaryF

    Reward cities for not spending their whole budget.

    I sell to many government agencies that go by the motto “If we don’t spend it, they won’t give us that much next year”.

    There is no reward for being frugal at the government level

  • GregX

    KimMnAzi- ” Our tax dollars do not need to be freely given to Planned Parenthood, -[ACORN].” ======================================== the ACORN issue went to court and was effectively disproven. Individuals wthin the organization acted badly – but not the organization. Now – as it turns out there have been a series of cases against Republicans party groups, and individual Republicans for campaign violations ( including voter tamperting ) that have resulted in Federal convictions. I’m guessing you would support banning the Republican party from federal funding and particiapting in federal programs like… congress. Thanks for your support KimMnTal.

  • GregX

    GaryF “Reward cities for not spending their whole budget.” —————————————————— BINGO …. and let them have the ability to reassign budget dollars as needed. We need to get rid of the whole ” federal and state” program-dollars rigidity. Government entities should be able to freely reassign a certain %-age of dollars from one funded program/pool to another – as long as they meet the minimum requirements of the original funding grant-program requirements.

  • GregX

    I purpose eliminating the Minnesota Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission. =========== Hmmmm …. yeah … the public needs to get out of the whole professional sports business. The professional-teams need to own their facilities, pay for maintenance, upkeep and modernization, run the off-season-rental business, etc.

  • GregX

    Flouridation, etc …. well … if they’d quit putting it in everything it wouldn’t be a problem. We need to quit enhancing everythiing. I swear I’m gonna see GMO bluebarries that whiten your teeth pretty soon.

  • david

    I agree with Jason that political pay doesn’t have anything to do with political corruption Steve. At least it doesn’t work that way in other circles. If it did every minimum wage earner would be steeling from their employers as there’s NO WAY to support a family or even an individual on that sort of money, and there would NOT be so much corruption on wall street and industry as we see in the likes of Phil and Wendy Gramm, Jamie Dimon, Stephen Friedman, Robert Steel, Henry Paulson, and pretty much everybody at Goldman Sachs.

  • annie

    steve,

    Individuals who suffer from greed never have enough and so regardless of how much you pay them, even high wages, it will nevr be enough. Bribes are always on the table for those who are dishonest.

    There are people who are talented with leadership skills who earnestly wish to lead the people regardless of wages.

    About the ‘City workers’ and full work days: I saw a man employed by the City-mow the lawn a few days ago on a corner of park land where the grass was already dead and had stopped growing. Employee hourly wages and fuel waste. (Piggybacking 6:11 Dan’s comment)

    It was at the corner of Mounds Boulevard and Earl where there is a handy camera at one of the street lights for further evidence of the charade, waste and abuse..

  • Kevin VC

    Lead from the top, Elected officials pay should be cut or eliminated, along with benefits.

    Honestly local governments have been suffering way to long and the state has been breaking deals to them for about as long.

    There are things you just can not cut, and should not.

    How many more bridges must fall, damns burst, refineries go unchecked, and basically the people who the government is about go neglected….

    To many in the 1% are immune to the realities of the world and only concerned about padding their banks accounts MORE… as if anything beyond a million is not enough…..

  • david

    Do you people realize that all these cuts are but a tiny fraction of a percent of the military spending budget? 59% of federal taxes go toward military spending ($698,105,000,000 in 2010). This is 6 times higher then the next countries spending (China) and equal to the top 24 countries COMBINED!

    That is RIDICULOUS! Tell your alleged representatives that it is and that it needs to stop! We DO NOT have to put up with this BS!

  • kimMN

    The real issue is _ why_ are states looking at cutting necessary services? The federal gov. sent millions to states to do their so called shovel ready jobs stimulus, you recall_ this is the one that Obama chuckled a loud about several months back at his speech when he said, ” well, those shovel ready jobs were not quite shovel ready.”

    States say they didn’t have employees available to process the fed’s paper work that was needed to start these building jobs. wow_ that’s some administration competency.

    The main reason states are thinking of cutting necessary services may be due to the fact that most of these services are done by union workers and their corrupt leaders have refused to make concessions to past year’s over bloated pension plans..so instead, they dig their heels in and prefer to see their own members laid off so the rest can keep their excessive benefits. Somehow that seems odd that the public unions that support Occupy Wall Street socialists, now care less about “equality” for all their members. Could it be the union leaders are more worried each month that their days are numbered because the ranks of public union members continues to drastically decline?

    Where will protesters go for medical care when more and more physicians cut back their clinic hours out of frustration with being taxed higher rates once they meet a certain threshold? Cutting services is at least half the fault of union leader thugs.

    MN readers that want to see the answers to many of today’s questions should thoroughly read The Radical in Chief, by Kurtz (2010)

    FOR THOSE WHO SEE THEMSELVES AS PROGRESSIVES, this book will fundamentally transform how you look at the days when liberals were co-opted by the Progressive movement..just as OWS protest was arranged by the Adbusters radical group, at least according to Adbusters own statements they take full responsibility for organizing this ” mini-return to woodstock” protest against Wall Street banks.

  • Steve the Cynic

    David, Jason, et al., you’re missing the point. It’s not a simple cause-and-effect. There will always be greedy, self-serving people who wil try to manipulate just about any system or institution for their own benefit. On the other hand, there really are idealistic people of integrity who would love to have jobs in public service, where they can feel good about what they’re doing, knowing that their work actually benefits people. Those are the people we want in elected, appointed, and civil service positions. Either overpaying or underpaying public servants is inimical to that goal. In particular, underpaying them means that honest folks have more incentive to take their talents to the private sector, while also making it easier for unscrupulous people to see an opportunity for personal advancement despite the low nominal pay.

  • kimMN

    @david comment_

    I doubt that the state of MN spends too much on national defense. Our federal government spends defense money for many countries..e.g., Greece has no military, over half of services for Germany, parts of the UK, etc..many countries have no military budget and they rely upon us to provide. Their socialist mentality led to severe over spending on entitlements, e.g., some had full retirement at age 52.

    If MN is to succeed, then MN needs to stop acting like California with the wacked out excessive spending for keeping happy the special interests like the environmentalist radical groups and the corrupt public union leaders.

  • T

    Today’s Question has become a joke and site for a few to “provide insight”. I tried again MPR to come back and participate, but can’t. Please moderate this site. It was once worthwhile, but now is infiltrated by paid shills on the extremes or whack-a-do’s(i.e KimMN or the cannabis crowd).

  • david

    Guess I’m more cynical than you Steve, but I live in a district with arguably the worse political representation in the state, from that psychopath at the federal level more busy running around the country pretending she has a chance of being president some day, to a shill for centerpoint energy and another shill for the vikings and the casino developer. None of which has ever had much interest in representing their constituents.

    KimMN you stupid sockpuppet don’t even bother responding to anything I say as I’m not up to reading anything from you anymore. If I was interested in hearing a bunch of BS I’d listen to rush limbaugh and watch faux news.

  • kimMN

    Maybe we need to cut the money that our officials give away to special groups first. MN recalls the 2008? settlement of $499,999.00 accepted as set up by the MN Attorney General for a big credit card bank. She set the agreement to one dollar below $500,000 because below that figure all the funds received from the bank would NOT have to go back to the state of MN general fund per law. Campaign disclosure records show this liberal attorney general then donated a few hundred thousand back to her ACORN based campaign supporters..she should have been fired as soon as that news came out. MN gave ACORN our money. Hmmm.

    THIS is a good example of how the officials have wasted our money for their own gain.

  • Steve the Cynic

    “Guess I’m more cynical than you Steve…”

    Who said I was cynical? I call myself a cynic. There’s a difference.

  • david

    Ok Steve what ever. How about answering the question then. Enlighten us with your cynic based wisdom. When you just point out everyone else’s mistakes, and never take a stand of your own, it gets old fast. Even the sockpuppet takes a stand, as deluded as it is.

  • Steve the Cynic

    Today’s Question can’t be answered in the abstract. Every local government has to make its own choices among the bad options they’ve got these days. I’d be tempted to just agree with “Tim,” who wrote, “Let’s start with police, fire, garbage collection, water and sewer. Then maybe we will elect people who understand that you need to pay for what you get.” The trouble is, there are enough gullible hotheads who would take that obvious sarcasm seriously.

    Most of our problems could be easily solved if more people would realize (here’s the cynic philosophy, david) that once you have enough money and stuff, more won’t make you any happier, and there’s a point where having more actually makes a person less happy, especially if there’s a persistent underclass of chronically poor folks, whose existence causes one to worry about the consequenced of losing one’s wealth, thus leading one to hoard.

  • kimMN

    Local governments do not need to cut basic services prescribed by law to provide. This question by MPR assumes cuts in these services are the answer vs. cutting waste and abuse and give aways to the unions. Here is a good update reading on these union leaders causing more trouble for all and they stupidly work for the interests of the Piven crowd that advocates for collapsing the government system by overwhelming the budget with adding millions to the rolls. When government can’t pay this, as we see in Greece, riots break out..big riots call for Marshal Law and suspension of our Republic’s Constitution. That tactic of worsening the economy and adding to it, public riots worked in Germany and Russia.

    SOURCE:

    Home / Business / Occupy Oakland Goes Violent after Obama Advisor Urges Militancy

    Written on NOVEMBER 5, 2011 by DA TAGLIARE

    Occupy Oakland Goes Violent after Obama Advisor Urges Militancy

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    98

    “This week, the Occupy Oakland protest turned violent. The protest had moved to the Port of Oakland and successfully shut it down. Protesters then broke into vacant buildings, set fires, broke windows in the downtown area and sprayed graffiti on buildings.

    As Oakland police in full riot gear moved in to stop the violence, protesters stared throwing Molotov cocktails, chunks of concrete and metal pipes at the police and fired off roman candles at them. In the melee between the police and the protesters, a number of protesters were injured with four of them ending up hospitalized.

    The once peaceful protest turned violent just three days after United Steelworkers International Union president Leo Gerard sent out a public appeal for more militancy. It appears that Gerard got his message through to the mob in Oakland.

    Gerard has a history of taking an active role in protests and clashes with the very establishment that supports his union and buys their products. In 1999, Seattle, Washington made the news when they hosted the World Trade Organization meetings at the Washington State Convention and Trade Center. Prior to and during the WTO meetings, protestors gathered outside the building. Gerard and United Steelworkers VP Tom Conway were filmed as they drug two large concrete planters into the middle of the intersection to help block access to the meetings.

    People’s Weekly World, the official newspaper of the Communist Party USA, quoted Gerard and Fred Redmond, another United Steelworkers leader in Feb. 2010. One of the quotes they published read, “It’s time to mobilize online and in the streets. Together, let’s tweet, facebook and text. Let’s rally, vote and, where necessary, sit-in.”

    Gerard also posted the following statement on the Firedoglake website in August of 2010, “uprising of hope and anger. There’s plenty of anger out there.”

    Typical of the liberal hypocrisy of the Democrats in control at the moment, Gerard is helping to protest against the very people and organizations that provides his livelihood along with that of his union workers. It’s big business that purchases the materials from companies that employ his union workers. If the occupy movement got their way with the financial world and big business, most of the steelworker union members would find themselves unemployed for lack of work.

    Additionally, and probably the most hypocritical aspect of Gerard’s actions and works is who he is associated with and who finances him.

    Gerard worked with the organizations that help draft Obama’s healthcare and stimulus packages. Those organizations are funded by billionaire George Soros. He also serves as co-chairman of the BlueGreen Alliance and as a board member of Apollo Alliance, a partner of BlueGreen Alliance.

    One of the leaders of Apollo Alliance is Van Jones, who once served as Obama’s green jobs czar. The New York branch of Apollo Alliance is headed by Jeff Jones who was one of the principle leaders of the terrorist group the Weather Undergound.

    In addition to his other positions, Gerard also serves on the board of Campaign for America’s Future and the Economic Policy Institute, both funded by George Soros. Economic Policy Institute’s Health Care for America ended up as the heart of Obama’s health care plan.

    As you see, Leo Gerard has many socialist ties and appears to be another one of George Soros’s puppets. Soros is among the elite within the 1% group that the Occupy movement is protesting against. You would expect Soros to put a gag in Gerard’s mouth, but that is not the case. In fact, I believe that Gerard is acting under the instructions of Soros. If the Occupy movement succeeds and overthrows the financial world and sends America into economic chaos, Soros is in a position to help take control of the country and increase his wealth and power many times over.”

    http://godfatherpolitics.com/1879/occupy-oakland-goes-violent-after-obama-advisor-urges-militancy/#ixzz1d2qHvpJL

    THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE but at first it will hurt to hear it. sorry, to David and Steve the cynic.

  • david

    I do agree with you Steve that this is a ridiculous question, and so I gave my ridiculous answer to illustrate my point that my elected officials are NOT WORTH what they are being paid. That we shouldn’t even be having to answer this question, that our priorities are in the wrong place.

    Yes there may be some places local government can create some efficiencies, but that is totally avoiding the 698,105,000,000 pound gorilla in the room. For some reason discussing that gorilla is not an option. Why? Reducing local spending will only harm local economies. Reducing military spending will only harm corrupt legislators, lobbyist, and military executive’s personal economies.

    But right now I’m far from living large, much less living comfortably enough to play with ideals like philosophy, or care about yours. I just finally got health insurance this month after 3 years of having to make the decision to pay the mortgage instead of insurance. My student loans are now higher then when I graduated because I had to defer them while i was laid off, again in the effort to keep my house. In all the political bullshit we went through over the last few years has cost me a very real $133,000+ dollars. I made enough sacrifices, it’s someone else’s turn.

  • TJSwift

    I agree with those who say there is, in most cities and towns, room for efficiencies and fat trimming before core services are touched.

    But for towns that really are down to that, I would offer the example of Foley, MN which just hired a private security company to patrol the streets, leaving sheriff’s department to handle actual arrests and detention.

    This might not be right for every city (Foley has a very small crime rate), but this kind of new thinking is a benefit of tight budgets and long overdue.

  • Steve the Cynic

    “The truth will set you free” from what, kimMN? I enjoy being free from greed and from being obsessed with ridiculous conspiracy theories.

  • GaryF

    Ever notice how they rarely compete with kimMN on the issue but go for personal attacks or try to discredit her sources?

  • david

    Because kimMN’s statements are so totally ridiculous they are not worth the effort to bother with gary. Much less read. Sort of like your conspiracy theory that the communist are about to take over. If communism is really such a threat, why to we do so much business and sell so much of our debt to China? Seems a poor strategic plan to me, yet no one on either side of the isle seems to concerned.

  • Jason

    Steve T.C., responding to your 9:51am post – I don’t think our elected officials can be compared to public servants in an underdeveloped (and assumed impoverished) nation. Your point is well taken; those people are under desperate conditions. But here in Minnesota it’s hardly a Les Miserables parable.

    I was only referring to elected officials, not the non-elected public employees. The former are far more prone to influence peddling, the latter are in little to no position of power or influence.

    I agree that the public servants’ salaries shouldn’t be cut. They should be compensated commensurate with their work and comparably with the private sector. If services are cut, then the personnel required to administer those services should be reassessed and reduced if necessary, again just like in the private sector.

    From your 11:04am posting I might have missed your earlier point, and your “cause and effect” statement seemed contradictory to what you were saying. I think I understand now. You’re saying that keeping pay adequate will keep out “unscrupulous” people, not that we should have to pay people to be scrupulous. My point was that good people do not simply turn bad if they feel under-compensated. At least I hope this is true.

    I still question whether adjusting the pay would have any effect on keeping out the unscrupulous. They will seek an opportunity anywhere, either private or public, at all levels of compensation. If low pay will attract or “make it easy for unscrupulous” people, there are many working in social welfare organizations or even as unpaid volunteers that may differ with that point.

  • Steve the Cynic

    “If low pay will attract or ‘make it easy for unscrupulous’ people, there are many working in social welfare organizations or even as unpaid volunteers that may differ with that point.”

    The trouble isn’t low pay itself, but low pay for people in positions of power over other people. That’s where the temptation comes in to supplement one’s official salary on the side.

  • Steve the Cynic

    You must realize, GaryF, that for a dedicated conspiricist such as kimMN, the facts are irrelevant. For instance, someone says Barack Obama was not born in the US. People come forward who distinctly remember his mother residing in Hawaii and don’t remember her taking any foreign trips around that time, and the conspiracists say that’s not conclusive enough. He releases his official birth certificate (which is not normally a public document), and they complain it’s not official enough. He releases a certified copy of the original documentation of his birth, which is not usually given out at all, and they fiind reasons to question its legitimacy. Microfilm records of two Honolulu newspapers show that his birth was reported 9 and 10 days after the fact (typical in those days), suggesting that if it’s a conspiracy it must have been unbelievably far-sighted, and conspiricists find a way to explain that away. At some point one realizes that for the conspiracy theory to be true would require a prepoosterously complex set of circumstances that are much more easily explained by some more reasonable theory, but the conspiracists persist. That’s why I don’t feel the need to argue kimMN’s “facts.” They have all the hallmarks of a paranoid conspiracy theory, and that’s enough to tell me I don’t need to bother.

  • Dan

    In my community and a nearby one as well, the local public unions are running the towns. They stack elections so that their advocates are on both sides of the bargaining table. This results in unfair contracts. They say they need to close parks, eliminate fire and ambulance services, etc… Whilst they take long breaks and lunches then head home before their shift ends. The parks department in a town with only 8000 households has 4 secretaries. The corrupt contracts invite the padding of pensions by allowing individuals near retirement age to accept supervisory positions for a very short time to vastly increase their benefits. While I hope that not all cities are run in this manner, I believe the corruption needs to be weeded out before citizen safety and security are on the chopping block.

  • Shane

    David,

    No one cares about your personal problems, maybe you should join the occupy wallstreet crowd and try to get a free ride on those student loans of yours. By the way, companies never lay off their most valuable employees. There are so many things government could cut I don’t even know where to start. Start anywhere, just start cutting!

  • GregX

    nMmiK …. delleps eb yllaer dluohs tI …. read it backwards folks.

  • kimMN

    If state governments cut the practice of taking federal money for enticing them to go along with their plans, every state would be better off. Each federal gov. allotment always has conditions that far_ outweigh the amount given..The feds give 120 million for example and the real cost to states is 10 times or more over that.

    Solyndra is just one example of how the fed gov. manipulates and leaves tax payers and states on the hook.

    Read this:

    https://secure.campaignsolutions.com/theteaparty/donation4o/Default.aspx?initiativekey=NL1TU59PTUY2

  • david

    Shane your a dupe. I have joined OWS and support them every day. I wish people like you would come on down and see what it’s all about, instead of letting limbaugh, oreilly, beck and the other manipulators dupe you sub-2 digit IQ types into believing massive cuts will do anything but line the pockets of the koch brothers and the rest of the plutocrats.

  • david

    Plus shane you know nothing little skinflint, The company I worked for laid EVERYONE off and closed. But when they reopened I was the first hired back. How valuable are you are your place of business?

    Why DON’T you offer some actually, real world practical advice. Give some real examples of cuts, dollar amounts and cost savings. You’re just a parrot. You have no idea’s, no real world experience or knowledge. You have NOTHING.

    Want a cracker?

  • Chuck

    Just for the record – one writer noted the following:

    “I doubt that the state of MN spends too much on national defense. Our federal government spends defense money for many countries..e.g., Greece has no military, over half of services for Germany, parts of the UK, etc..many countries have no military budget and they rely upon us to provide.” This information is completely incorrect. MN contributes much to national defense – note the .heroic contribution of MN’s national guard.

    Greece has a fine military, Germany and the United Kingdom both have extremely capable armed forces. The US contributes some military assistance to all three, but it is miniscule. I no of no place on earth that relys solely on the US to provide their national defense.

    The writer gets most, if not all of her “information” from extreme right wing sources, which incidentally have been roundly criticized by reputedably reporting sources.

  • kimMN

    Local governments get hit for more costs by more OCW protester events..then they collect over $300,000 and start their own web page? ridiculous hypocrisy.

    In DC they went nuts with more violence directed against the republican convention David posting here says he is an active OWS yet he isn’t protesting at the Fannie Mae building or White House that is in conclusion with the whole wall street bailouts.

    See this latest bit on the ever so nice grassroots so called OWS..I hope they keep it going for another 6 months so all of us Independents will be sure not to vote for Obama and his class warfare tactics yet__ Obama said in 2008 he would control the salaries of companies he has took over, all the while Obama has took more money from Wall Street than alllllll the former presidents combined…..refute that? Can’t_ because its from the government’s own numbers.

    The Federal reserve lends mony to Wall Street at under 1% and then the banks buy treasury notes which is a better safer bet than small company loans. Thus, the Fed Reserve essentially caused banks NOT to make loans to small business.

    Here is the latest on DC OWS anarchists and radicals that our President supports!!! He is ruining his chance for re-election. http://theothermccain.com/2011/11/05/f-michelle-fields-interview-with-reporter-harassed-at-occupy-dc-protest/

  • Shane

    David,

    I don’t think you want to start comparing IQ’s or real world experience. Are you trying to tell me the OWS crowd doesn’t want the government to pay off their student loans? HA! I think the fact that I have made it through two rounds of layoffs at the company I work for says something about how valuable I am. And as far as real world experience? I bought my house, which I still have, when I was a mere 20 years old. Without any government help. I paid for my schooling with money I had saved since I started working at age 15. I have never been fired, unemployed, or had my hand out. When I say who cares what you cut, just start cutting, I mean it. This might be a news flash to you but WE CAN’T AFFORD YOUR UTOPIA WELFARE STATE! I can list for you all of the places where welfare staes have failed (Greece), why don’t you list for me all of the places where utopia welfare states have had long-term success. I’m guessing it will be a pretty short list………

  • david

    shane,

    I have NEVER said anything about welfare, except ending corporate welfare. I never asked for anything but reinstating Glass-Steagall, or at least putting some real teeth in Dodd-Frank. I demand some real investigation be done into the housing scandal. The fact your not pissed at the devaluation of your home makes me wonder if you really have one. Or you’re just a dupe. Someone told you to blame Obama and that’s good enough for you. I totally believe cuts need to be made, but make cut where it’ll make the biggest difference, and not further the recession. We could cut 25% of the federal budget tomorrow by cutting 50% of the US’s military spending. We would still have more than three time the spending of China. Why doesn’t that piss off you any anti-big-government types? A big military IS big government.

    BTW I’m not a democrat, I’m actually a real independent. I’ve voted for both sides in the past, but the behavior on the right, and how the right has moved to such extremes is too much for me. I can not see anyone in this current crowd of miscreants I would ever consider voting for. The constant lies are ridiculous. The GOP should be horrified at what their party has become.

  • kimMN

    @steve the cynic_ My mistake typing Greece as having no army..they do rely upon USA for much of their costs just as Micronesia, Marshall islands and I think Guam. Iceland used to rely upon the USA for defense until about late 2005 or mid 2006.

    MN National Guard is indeed a cost and why we send the states’ NG for over seas foreign issues since Vietnam seems out of order. Border states’ National Guard should be helping the CBP on the usa/mexican borders. MN NG can help on the Canadian border.

    If we in MN really want to see taxes lower and not have to cut services, all we need to do is not elect another socialist Dreams from my Father type, all we got so far is 4 trillion added to our debt and effective unemployment at over 20% ( Jobless rates use unemployment offices applications each week for benefits..doesn’t cover the ones who ran out of benefits or work part time.) Under Obama the banks reported making $ 77.3 billion in ’09 and ’10 , that’s almost $39 billion each year. Under Bush the banks made just under 10 billion a year. Who is helping Wall Street the most ?????? yet he and Pelosi both support the OWS. ( now going on 3100 incidents with arrests, multiple rapes, multiple vandalism and stopping business activity where ever they camp.

  • Steve the Cynic

    That wasn’t me who called you on that mistake, kimMN. This may come as a surprise to you, but those of us who find your postings unpersuasive are not a monolithic group of like-minded dupes. We disagree with each other, too. That’s ‘cuz we think for ourselves, rather than parroting talking points from some ideological web site.

  • kimMN

    Shane’s comment is right on the mark and he asked “why don’t you list for me all of the places where utopia welfare states have had long-term success.” No liberal will answer that question. Well, maybe Obama’s past appointee, Anita Dunn who said at a speech of law students that she looks up to Chariman Mao for her inspiration! Some liberal role model eh? maybe she could find one country where utopia welfare state has worked well for the citizens, not just for the elite dicators……Hmmmm, thinking_ Cuba? Nope, Castro said last year that the whole socialist idea wasn’t working out. hmmmm..nope, none exist.

    As for David’s comment of ” demand some real investigation be done into the housing scandal” I would direct him to read up on the Clinton signed Community Reinvestment Act followed by the origins of the credit default swaps for Fannie Mae. Banks became over leveraged selling one useless bundle of loan guarantees , all supposedly backed by Fannie Mae and freddie mac until there were no more buyers and the collapse was inevitable. THAT is what happens when government regulates how banks do business..giving away mortgages to those who had no basis or desire to ever pay the mortgage or could not afford it to begin with..THAT was the Community Reinvestment Act’s problem in real ife while making the Dems and Clinton look good by seemingly helping anyone own a home on bad faith.

    Under the Obama plan, the Treasury got $1 billion of senior preferred stock in 2008, with warrants representing ownership stakes of 79.9 percent of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The government was supposed to receive annual interest of 10 percent on its stake.

    Just as with GM and Chrylser, while common stockholders of Fannie and Freddie won’t be fully eliminated, they will be last in line for any claims, Paulson said yesterday. Preferred shareholders will be second in absorbing losses, With GM, the unions got bailed out to keep funding their exorbitant pensions at tax payers expense when a bankruptcy by the law, would have found a new owner for GM and workers would switch over to the new owner, minus the union control_ ouch, no union control of GM was unthinkable for re-election promises made to the unions by Obama..so, everyone else got screwed over except the unions.

  • Chuck

    Micronesia is an area in the South Pacific. The Federated States of Micronesia and the Marshall Islands (all part of the area of Micronesia) has a Compact of Free Association with the US and the US is resposnible for their defense. Guam, also part of Micronesia, is a US territory and has a large US military presence.

  • Shane

    David,

    I happen to be a libertarian. I would happily cut 50% from our military budget! That’s a good start, now let’s list more programs we could cut by 50%. The EPA? The department of health and human services? The Fed? I can keep going……

  • Steve the Cynic

    “….why don’t you list for me all of the places where utopia welfare states have had long-term success.”

    Of course, there aren’t any, Shane, because there’s no such thing as utopia. There is no perfection anywhere in the world; there’s only relatively better or worse. That said, consider Canada, the UK, Scandinavia, Australia, and quite a few other places where governments that have struck a good balance between freedom of markets on the one hand, and intelligent regulation of business and reliability of the social safety net on the other.

    Both strict socialism and strict laissez faire capitalism are bad. Can you show me an example of a free-market utopia that doesn’t have intolerable wealth disparity and chaotic boom-and-bust business cycles?

  • david

    kimMN you moron. I’m not the one making this partisan. I do believe BOTH sides are to blame. Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Why I don’t know. But in my first post I want ALL politicians to take a pay cut. You make everything partisan, I am just pointing out what I feel is wrong, like you and the right wings ridiculous hypocrisies. Or when you steer every conversation into a farfetched conspiracy theory. Not to mention how you let certain industries dupe you in to these believes you hold (global warming, unions are evil, the communist, socialist, fascist are taking over….) Those who don’t agree with you don’t do so because we see ourselves “on the other side”, but because we have the ability to think for ourselves, do research, and stay informed by someplace other then the right wing propaganda machines you post here 10 times a day as being “news”.

  • Neil C.

    Steve, Kim, Greg, David, Chuck and others:

    Please limit your posts to 2 per day.

    If your intention is to make this feature unpalatable to the majority of readers, you are succeeding. You will actually have more audience and more influence if you don’t drive us all away.

    Thanks.

  • david

    If you want to cut military spending, then SAY so shane. Don’t cast dispersions at me. At least I’m out there trying to make a difference. Not sitting on my high and mighty ass. Write your representatives, I write mine often. Do some research on who is to gain for these “Cuts” and who it going to be terribly hurt. Like cutting the EPA, that is straight out of the koch brothers/tea party handbook. Do you know who signed the EPA into law, and why? Who is the biggest advocate for it’s demise, and why? Do you really believe business can regulate it’s self? That was tried and it failed miserably. Do you fish? Have you read the fish consumption advisories in the fishing rule book? Does that make you happy? Do you remember the pollution issues in China during the last Olympics? You want that here? Do you have children or ever plan on doing so? What sort of legacy are you looking to leave them?

  • CF

    The choice is clear, cut the government schrools. If these corrupt, top-heavy union dominated institutions where private companies they would have gone out of business long ago.

    What other industry than public schrools continues to demand more and more money and yet continues to produce a defective product?

    The best thing that could happen to the public schrools is to force them to lay off excess administrators, get rid of all the indoctrination and propaganda and foremost, abolish the teachers unions completely.

    Cut back all schrools so they can and should teach only the three R’s. They can’t even do that! Leave out history because the libtard teachers, (or more accurately, Imams), have re-written it. Not economics either, that’s the oxymoron of the century. The LAST thing I would expect from a government schrool is to manage money, let alone teach how to do it.

    My town like many others in the state will have a schrool tax increase referendum on the ballot. I encourage all voters in towns statewide to go to the polls tomorrow and VOTE NO!!!

    NO!! Nyet! Nein! Never! Nada!

    The schrools and teachers use the word “investment”. Investment my foot!! If schrools are such a good “investment” why hasn’t Warren Buffett or Donald Trump “invested” in them? Because public schrools are one big black hole money pit. We could have 100% of tax revenue go to government schrools and they still would want more! VOTE NO!!!

    Taxed

    Enough

    Already

  • Steve the Cynic

    CF, anyone who thinks there’s too much teaching of history in public schools is not to be taken seriously. (And I object to your slur, “libtard.” I have too much respect for the developmentally disabled among us to insult them by association with political ideologues.)

  • The dumbest post of all time award

    Wow there have been some stupid posts on here, and with kimMN’s 20 plus daily long, rambling, propagandist, racist tirades, it was going to be hard to usurp its throne. But then BAM CF comes out of nowhere and says, in this judges eyes, the single most fallacious, misguided, partisan, bigoted insane post EVERY!

    Let’s break it down to see where the judges awarded points:

    1) The choice is clear, cut the government schrools. If these corrupt, top-heavy union dominated institutions where private companies they would have gone out of business long ago. It’s no wonder CF is mad at the public education system. “schrools” , Rut Roo Raggy, Schrooby doo do rike schrools. OK maybe it’s a typo, so let’s look at the rest of the statement.

    Schools are corrupt, makes sense. The news is full of scandals of teachers and administrators embezzling billions for the public daily. Oh wait, that’s Wall Street.

    Union dominated, now there’s the partisan buzzword of the year. How dare those teachers, after getting master degrees or higher, then going into historically low paying jobs, for the sake of children, would want to maintain collective bargaining rights. Those FAT CATS! Isn’t their average median salary of $50,595 a year enough for those selfish whores?!? They are clearly part of the 1%

    where private companies they would have gone out of business long ago. WELL DUH! It’s the type of clientele those schools are attracting. I mean children! Those lazy bastards! Milking off the system, jobless, always looking for a hand out. They need to get a job and start paying their way! I mean this isn’t Romper Room.

    2) What other industry than public schrools continues to demand more and more money and yet continues to produce a defective product? Not the banks, that’s for certain.

    And don’t even get me started on how those lazy kids keep being born, clogging up the schools. It’s almost like the schools expect their funding to go up every year not only to keep up with inflation and changes in technology, but that their per pupil budgets amounts should keep pace too. (And there’s that “typo” again, schrools…hmmmm)

    3) The best thing that could happen to the public schrools is to force them to lay off excess administrators, get rid of all the indoctrination and propaganda and foremost, abolish the teachers unions completely. Yeah how dare those schools indoctrinate those students into….. ummmmm, public life? I never got that bit of partisan rhetoric. I think it’s a pro-religious thing. You know like if you teach things like science, critical thinking, and real life sex education you’re indoctrinating the youth.

    4) Cut back all schrools so they can and should teach only the three R’s. They can’t even do that! Leave out history because the libtard teachers, (or more accurately, Imams), have re-written it. Not economics either, that’s the oxymoron of the century. The LAST thing I would expect from a government schrool is to manage money, let alone teach how to do it. “schrools” twice in this one, I’m guessing it’s not a typo anymore. So I wonder if CF thinks the three Rs are literal, and not that only one of them starts with R? There’s obviously and R in school, so maybe so.

    CF is correct on this one, as CF obviously failed the second R. Beside CF’s poor grammar what other evidence does it present to support its thesis? Oh there goes those damn libtards wanting proof again….

    And imams? Where did that one come from? The state education system is now under control of Islam? Where is the evidence for that? Just because they don’t teach anti-Muslim hate speech then they are aligned with the Muslim people and their teachings? I guess the terrorist won. Game over. Or is CF a huge bigot? I’m guessing the later.

    5) The schrools and teachers use the word “investment”. Investment my foot!! If schrools are such a good “investment” why hasn’t Warren Buffett or Donald Trump “invested” in them? Because public schrools are one big black hole money pit. We could have 100% of tax revenue go to government schrools and they still would want more! VOTE NO!!! Donald Trump and Warren Buffett are not investing in schools I guess because of the poor rate of return. Those lazy kids you know need to pay more. As apposed for all those for profit primary schools out there. That’s where Trump actually made the lion’s share of his money. Most think it was in real-estate, but if you read his biography you’d know the truth.

    So CF and its spectacular grammar skills, flawless logic, and detailed evidence wins…. The worse, more moronic post for the question of the day ever. Congratulations CF!

    KimMN you are going to have to try much harder if you’re going to take the throne back. May the biggest moron win.

  • Tony

    A couple things.

    1) Any legislator who thinks that government is too big should resign immediately, and help out his or her own cause.

    2) I can’t figure out why public school administrators (principals and superintendents) make 6-figure salaries. Cut that.

  • CF

    @ “The dumbest post of all time award”

    Thank you. Thank you. No, please. Hold your applause. Thank you. Your generous approval of my posting is a reward in itself. I especially appreciate the recognition you gave me for my flawless logic and grammar. It’s a gift, I know. I humbly try to restrain myself.

    So does this mean me and KimMN go to the playoffs?

    Actually that “schrools” notation was intentional. I got it from Rush Limbaugh. Maybe you should listen to Rush sometime. You might even hear the truth and get educated! Imagine that. Even someone like me who had to suffer 12 years in the public schrool system can make a life for himself and not have his brain filled with libtard mush, Communist propaganda and XXX rated Playboy Sex-Ed. You see I use the term “schrool” because I got screwed!!!

    By your defence you sound like a teacher, oh sorry.

    Eh- eh-e-e-educator. Well, well how puffy is that title? It’s bad enough that my tax dollars are being spent to indoctrinate young minds to think(?) something can come from nothing, that we humans have no souls and that we are no more a “species” than a bacterium and morals? What morals? Make up your own.

    And now they want MORE of my money? Maybe if schrools were what they were back when my parents were students in the 1930’s and ’40’s when there was actual LEARNING going on and not this libtard pro teen sex, pro-gay, Godless Communist garbage they are foisting on our children today, maybe just maybe I would be more supportive.

  • CF

    @ STC

    Oh Steve, I’m sorry. I forgot to answer your post. I was so caught up in the moment of receiving my award as the most bigoted poster ever to post on this blog. You can understand. Being this popular is a little, well, a bit overwhelming. Having the paparazzi blind me with flash bulbs and being mobbed for autographs and all.

    Anyway I didn’t invent the word LibTard. Somebody else did. But hey, if the shoe fits, right? Look, we all know liberals can be very intelligent and functional people. The only problem is that they are WRONG!

    Of course I wouldn’t want to be politically incorrect. But you see the word retarded implies limitation. And in the case of liberals, that retardation is their willingness to limit their acceptance of the TRUTH.

    And we owe it all to government education in our schrools from Pre-K to post graduate. You see Hitler, (or was it Stalin or Marx), who said, “give me the children and I will own the country”. And the scrools expect me to pay for it?!

    Again, if anyone hasn’t heard this yet. Go to the polls tomorrow and vote NO!!!

    Taxed

    Enough

    Already

  • Steve the Cynic

    I would rebuke you for your foolishness and gullibility, CF, but I’ve learned that reasoning with the unreasonable is a fools errand.

  • Prairiephtotos

    Minnesota could stop funding public television in North Dakota. Your state is broke. My state has more money than it knows what to do with, yet MN keeps sending us money and programing. You waste a few dollars here, waste a few there, and before long you have deficit hole which you cannot climb away from.

  • The dumbest post of all time award

    I thought i recognized you CF, you haul my garbage away. How’s that working out for you?

    So you’re a religious zealot, uneducated, bigoted, dittohead. Explains a lot.

  • Steve the Cynic

    Hey, don’t insult garbage haulers like that!

  • CF

    @ STC

    I would rebuke you for your foolishness and gullibility, CF, but I’ve learned that reasoning with the unreasonable is a fools errand.

    Then I guess that makes us both fools now doesn’t it.

    @The dumbest post of all time award

    So you’re a religious zealot, uneducated, bigoted, dittohead. Explains a lot.

    By calling me a religious zealot dosen’t that now make you as “bigoted” as me?

    Uneducated? Well what do you expect? I went to a public schrool. That should explain everything.

    Fortunately I am now exposing myself to the truth by listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Jason Lewis and Neal Boortz.

    And finally, that’s Dittohead with a capital D. Show a little respect for someone with a greater intellect.

    TEA

  • The dumbest post of all time award

    It’s dittohead with a small d. Limbaugh hasn’t achieved cult status like the sudo-christian god you pray too (also small g). Even though both are made up to control sheeple like yourself into doing and believing what your dark corporate overlords want. You see how they do that? Vilify the opposition so they can manipulate you while they say they are enlightening you about the manipulation the “other side” is trying to control you with. Sneaky bastards, but that’s why they want to weaken the public education system. If kids knew how to think critically, there wouldn’t be enough bodies to fight in pointless wars for the oil industry, or vote to give tax breaks to corporations even though history has shown that has a detrimental effect on the economy.

    So did you referendum get defeated there CF? The odds are against it. Hope for the sake of the children in your trailer park it passed.

  • debbie

    Cut all public-sector pay, benefits and pensions by 15%….don’t lay anyone off just make their compensation fair. Get rid of tenure and unlimited accrued leave that can be tacked on in the last year of employment.

  • CF

    @ The dumbest post of all time award

    Hey, that’s Mister Dittohead, Sir to you “dumbest”.

    What’s this smart remark about disparaging people who live in trailer parks? You BIGOT!! How dare you. Don’t you know that comment is so-o-o-o politically incorrect? What did you learn in a public schrool anyway? You are so offensive stereotyping trailer park residents like that. I thought you were the one who was so “tolerant”.

    In any event, I don’t live in a trailer, excuse me, a manufactured home. I own a house. And it’s paid for. Thank you Wall Street for giving me a mortgage and trusting me to pay it back (early) like a responsible conservative, (as opposed to a liberal who wants the tax payer to bail him out of a house he couldn’t afford). No I didn’t need Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac either.

    The ballot measure did pass so more of my taxes will be wasted on government so-called “education”. So tell me this. If public schrools are so good, why haven’t test scores improved or even remained stagnant. They’ve gotten worse! In spite of all the money we throw at these worthless institutions, why is there such an achievement gap between Negroes and whites? If public schrools allegedly teach “critical thinking” why is it that bullying, guns and violence are so prevalent in schrool? Why are public schrools more like minimum security prisons. How often do you hear of a schrool under “lockdown”?

    If you want to be an Atheist, that’s fine. Be one. I’m sure God will honor your request. You can look forward to sharing company with your other Atheist friends like Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin and Josef Mengele to name a few. Good luck.

    TEA

  • Steve the Cynic

    Uh, CF, I think you missed the point of that “trailer park” comment. I took it to mean, since good schools are the best hope for kids living in trailer parks to move up the economic ladder, if levies fail they won’t be getting such a good leg up. Our public schools may need lots of improvement, but they’re not nearly as bad as your silly, over-the-top caricature, and squeezing their funding won’t help.

  • CF

    @STC

    If you read the post from “dumbest”, he/she or whatever was implying that because I am a conservative, a Christian and believe political correctness is a total sham, the poster had this image of me….

    Settin’ on the steps of my trailer, (propped up on cement blocks), with a shotgun in my lap. Smoking a corn cob pipe. Having old junk cars in the front yard. Litter, old tires and dilapidated appliances laying around. My illiterate kids dirty and half clothed running around with hair lice. And to top it off, there of course would be the Stars-N-Bars in my living room window, “Don’t Tread On Me”. (Cue the Country and Western music).

    In other words, classic redneck.

    You see the poster made an assumption. Assumptions are also prejudice and a tolerant liberal would never be prejudiced. Of course that doesn’t apply to me. I never claim to be tolerant or politically correct. At least I’m honest.

  • Steve the Cynic

    I wasn’t making any assumptions about anyone else’s assumptions, CF. I was just giving my interpretation of the words that actually appeared. You’re the one who’s making assumptions.

  • The dumbest post of all time award

    Take what I said anyway you see fit there CF. I just said what I said to see what sort of response I would. And I think I got the one I pretty much expected, an ignorant, bigoted, hypocritical one. BTW I’m not a liberal, except maybe compared to your ultra-far right stance when even the center seems left. But I guess it’s true I may be a bigot, I really dislike you, and all narrow minded christian conservatives. Now there’s an oxymoron, conservative being use to describe anything republican. Boggles the mind.

    Love how you stand up for the trailer park though, that’s amusing. You still going to do that after the Imams move in? Or the Negros? Or any liberals?

    So just curious, do you send your kids to private school? Or you one of those ardent anti-public school types that doesn’t even have children (like your obese puppet master rush)?

  • Then one more. . . I really like apple cake! : ): )