Do you think unionized child care is a good idea?

Gov. Mark Dayton ordered Tuesday that the state give child-care providers who receive a state subsidy the chance to vote on whether to form a union. Today’s Question: Do you think unionized child care is a good idea?

  • Kurt

    Unions exist to protect workers from their own sloth and misbehavior. This didn’t used to be the case but it is now. No one is accountable-no one is ever rewarded-no one is ever fired. If Day Cares were unionized, Jerry Sanduzsky couldn’t be fired.

  • John O.

    I understand the concept of trying to boost wages for people who choose to work in an important, but traditionally low-paying occupation.

    However, like any other good or service, higher wages will result in higher daycare costs for customers. I know families that have done the math and have figured out that it is actually cheaper for a spouse to say home full-time and care for their kids versus both spouses working and watching one entire paycheck go to daycare expenses.

    I believe that the governor has more important and pressing issues to deal with right now. This effort is only going to further polarize neighbors and politicians alike.

  • Kurtsy

    I have no problem with the freedom to organize and vote for union representation. A lot of people in MN like the idea of unions, even if they aren’t in one. As I understand the situation, no one will be forced to join a so-called daycare union. I believe the union could act as a lobby to represent the interests of the daycare providers. Also to use the union as a way to help draft uniform regulations and safety standards for the industry.

  • Dani Indovino

    Absolutely. Without a centralized place for childcare workers to come together and discuss the hazards and injustices of their work, there is no way it can get better. This could improve childcare for families and workers alike, as they fight against the larger corporations that have unfair practices and charge astronomical rates to pay their workers nothing.

    I’m sorry, but when families are paying almost half of one spouses salary for childcare so that the actual people that are taking care of their actual children are making often less monthly than the monthly cost of 2 children they care for… how is that good for anyone?

    Let’s forget that a lot of these workers don’t have sick days or health insurance. I know there’s nothing I want more than sick, underpaid, overworked people caring for my children. How about you?

    A union is supposed to be a way for workers to negotiate with their employer at once. It’s important. I think that the interest of the health care workers is also the interest of the families.

    The important part is keeping the prices reasonable for every day people, and for that, only a united front and a hard battle can win.

  • Philip

    This is not 1929. Unions have served their purpose in our nations history. Now they need to go away, because they cause more problems than they fix. And yes, I used to belong to one and it was a great example of a self-licking ice cream cone, self-serving and looking out for its own political interests.

  • GaryF

    First of all, a many daycare providers are single owner operators, so they cannot be unionized.

    So, for all you people that said the lack of Local Government Aid will raise your local property taxes will now have to admit that unionizing daycare will raise the cost of daycare. These people run on too thin a margin to absorb an increase in labor costs without passing it on to the customer.

    If labor costs rise, daycare costs rise, people who use daycare already are stretched too thin with their budgets. They will go to non-union firms. Only well to do folks will be able to afford union daycare.

    So, will the state have to subsidize more daycare to help cover the cost increases?

    Sounds like a Democratic union dues racket to me.

  • Patti

    No more unions

  • david

    Unions are good. They would help slow the slide down of the lower and middle class. All hourly paid employees should be unionized. I don’t care if corporations would show slightly less profits, the 1% has enough. If the mass of people in this country do not have enough money to spend, the economy is going to suck for everyone eventually. That trickle down theory was a lie, stop being a dupe.

  • FGary

    There is no one forcing union membership on any daycare provider. What a daycare provider will charge will be market based. If I want to send my kid to a daycare mill down the street based solely on price point that’s my choice. If I choose a clean, well run more upscale (higher price) operation on another street that’s my choice as well. Which one is union who cares. The parents choose where their child will be sent.

  • Steve the Cynic

    I don’t know whether childcare should be unionized. However, I vehemently disagree with the thesis that “unions have served their purpose” and “need to go away.” Yes, unions have occasionally overreached, but it’s nothing compared to the exploitation, abuse, and economic servitude that existed a century ago. If unions go away entirely, that state of affairs would start to return. Unions are serving their purpose and should continue.

    As for the question of whether independent operators can be unionized, there are precedents. Musicians, actors, plumbers, electricians, etc., are similar in many ways.

  • Peggy

    I was a former child care worker at a daycare center. I was paid minimum wage. I later decided to go into business myself and made much more money. As a private business owner I was able to decide the rates to charge families. I do not think it makes sense for private childcare providers to become unionized. They set their own rates! If anyone needs to be Unionized it is the daycare centers such as New Horizon that pay their staff minimum wage however charge families high rates for care.

  • Sorry but a job that a 14 year old girl down the street will do for $5/hr should not be unionized. If individuals want to start a union within a business (for example New Horizon) that’s fine, have a vote within the business. It’s wrong to force people who are running their own business within their own home to join a union and pay union dues to have the union create new regulations (with new costs) that will be forced upon them. This new union would just push people into the big box day care companies (who can afford to deal with unions) while the individual small businesses will just go under since many parents will find that it makes more sense to have one spouse stay home with the kids due to the increased costs.

  • Kevin H

    Daycare providers need a seat at the table when decisions are made about their workplace safety and wages.

  • Mary Robison

    I do not support a daycare union, because my understanding is that this fight for a union is primarily about decreasing government regulations of home daycares, rather than fighting for higher wages or health care benefits for daycare workers. When most people here about the union fight, they assume that it would be to fight for better wages or health care benefits for workers. That is not what I have heard. Instead, I hear home daycare providers fighting for fewer, lower quality standards. I want daycares to have those quality standards in place to ensure child safety.

  • Steve the Cynic

    Jefferson, who said anything about forcing anyone to join a union?

  • GregX

    while this is no longer 1929 – as one poster noted … the situation employee-employer is returning there steadily. After substantive growth in employee workplace safety, wages, benefits – through 1960’s – the last four decades has seen the companies erode the union effectiveness. By willfully underfunding pensions and then shunting the costs back at the tax payer through the Pension Benefit Guarentee Corp – the corp’s eviscerated that benefit and established a “wink wink legal” method for doing so. That was paired with a combination of (1) lobbying at legislatures and congress to force ever more repressive requirements on union formation and (2) extensive and pervasive industrry-groups filing court cases on nearly every aspect of negotiated contracts unders laws passed through their lobbying efforts. Lastly – companies have “financialized” themeselves… and commoditized their work staff. As commodities – staff were not paid for actual worth to the company – but paid a very limited precentage of the “commonditized value of employees” under the operational financial structure of hte corporation. Companies operate now by treating employees, not as talent and a valued partner, but as a replacable cog in an abstract machine – that might deem, under financial analysis – to devalue them more and more … in order to compete. this is the physics based model that is very popular under most MBA progams – that lead to the mortgage crisis, and a plethora of other bad decisions in how to relate money to people, production and national security.

  • Lance

    Dani,

    How many ways did you contradict yourself? I can’t understand how you get from daycare being too expensive to daycare workers not making enough in the same sentence. Who is this hardfought battle going to be against – taxpayers?

    There is no single employer with whom to negotiate. All that this will do is either:

    i. force the price of daycare higher due to union dues and more legislated daycare center requirements

    or

    ii. force taxes higher as increased subsidies for daycare

  • kimMN

    The only ones demanding UNIONS in day care for private providers is simply stupid on the face of it. The employer is the same as the would be union member! Ludicrous. This whole issue is initiated by the union bosses to recoup some of their lost membership over the years in other sectors… Union leaders and government politicians are the 1%, not the employers or business owners.

    The Political Class live in a world of wealth and power, and they don’t play by the same rules that you and I do. The Political Class operates above the law – literally, above it and lording over it. Since they make the laws, they can rewrite them to suit themselves. They pull the strings on the mainstream press establishment by playing games with information and power.

    Does this sound a bit dramatic and dystopian?

    Then you haven’t read Throw Them All Out by editor Peter Schweizer or seen the recent 60 Minutes segment that was based on the book’s research but independently verified and reported by CBS and Steve Kroft.

  • Mary T.

    A union for child care providers is long overdue. We providers talked about this 25-30 years ago when licensing first became common place.

    What better way to be sure your child is well cared for than making sure the caregiver has what s/he needs!

    “Union” is a tool – I am a child care provider and I am so grateful that someone has finally trying to make “union” work for family child care. Our costs are so out of control and only getting worse. This is a way for us to get these costs under control so that parents don’t have to get an extra job to pay for their child care!

  • Steve the Cynic

    The quickest route to the socialist revolution that right-wingers keep trying to make us afraid of is to give Big Business everything it wants and force people to live under the plutocratic tyranny that would result. Unions, government social programs, and progressive taxation are necessary to save capitalism from itself. FDR knew this. We forget at our peril.

  • kimMN

    To mary’s comment: How exactly does joining a Union and paying the Union monthly dues to have them negotiate pay for private day care providers help you lower costs? Dues are an added cost and union contracts won’t lower your provider costs. You do know that most top union leaders take from their members’ dues, a yearly 6 figure income plus more for benefits?

  • david

    What is your point kimMN? Are you calling for anarchy? If all politicians are bad, and they all need to be thrown out, that’s what you’ll get. You constantly flap your sock puppet gums, but rarely say anything. Everything you post is unreadable. Does freedom works sock puppet school have a grammar class you can take too?

    I do think in this case the purpose of the union is to help give daycare providers some say in the overt government regulations imposed on them. So many are against regulation when it comes to something that actually effects everybody, like wall street. When their precious spawn is involved, they can’t get enough regulation.

  • Pam

    Jefferson,

    I agree unions do not have a place in small daycare businesses, however we do not provide the same servive a teenager would do for $5 an hour down the street. Most of us have many hours of continuing education or degrees, cirriculums, schedules and expertise in the field. We have great responsibility with these small people and when you break everything down, probably do not get paid what we are worth. We are in the field because we care and love the families and children we provide services for.

    We cook, teach, deliver to preschool, nurse the sick ones, role model for these little guys. We are important they are our future.

  • Beth

    Your question is a little misleading. Governor Dayton is ordering licensed family childcare providers to vote on whether to unionize. These are self-employed small business owners, NOT minimum wage employees of childcare centers. However, the union has set it up with Dayton so that only roughly a third of family childcare providers that are licensed in the state of MN get a chance to vote. If you are not currently receiving state monies for a child on subsidy, you do not have a voice in this debate. I currently have no subsidized children, therefore I have no vote. That is not to say that I would not someday be willing to take in subsidized children, or that I have not cared for them in the past. Then, apparently, I would be subject to union dues, as they would be taken out of subsidy checks (which, coincidentally, many providers are already complaining are too small). If I choose to opt out of the union, the fee may be the same, as is the case in other states in which AFSCME has been successful with this push.

    My husband is a union member, as he should be. He is a public employee in a state penitentiary. Unions have a place in certain industries. If I needed someone to help me gain better benefits, have a safer work environment, or assure fair pay, I would be all for a union for my industry. As it stands, I set my own hours, manage my own workplace safety, determine my own wages, and take as many sick and vacation days (and any other benefits) as I build into my own contract.

    One of the major “talking points” that the union reps bring up on their many visits to my door is a push for health care. I am fortunate enough to be covered under my husband’s healthcare plan, so this is not a benefit i need. However, I am a huge proponent of nationalized healthcare. If this is a major issue with providers that are pro-union, I would suggest that their energy be applied to fighting for a communal healthcare benefit for everyone in the country.

    I am a left-leaning liberal who voted for Dayton. I am having strong regrets about that today.

  • Sorry Steve the Cynic, I tried to respond to your question but I was censored…apparently you are not allowed to quote a Star Tribune article and provide the link to it. I promise I was not aggressive or rude in the response; I’m still wondering why I was censored.

  • Yes, child care workers, who join with parents and teachers in helping to form young lives, have the right to unionize. This may not only provide higher pay for this underpaid task, but also may help develop some minimal professional standards.

    But most importantly, unionization will generate among those who work painfully long hours, in virtual isolation from other adults, a forum for developing a community of childcare givers. This would provide personal support and, in the best case, would confer deserved dignity on this often undervalued vocation.

  • Jennifer

    I guess I am confused. I run an in home preschool, which is under the family child care rules. I make roughly 36k before taxes or cost of running the preschool each year. I do not think that is an outrageous amount of money for being in this field for 20 years and have more then one education degree to back up my teaching. I think people are getting child care centers confused with home care. Yes, centers can charge up to $350 a week for child care. Yes, they could use a union to make things better at the centers. But this is about family child care. $350 is half of what I make for all my children in care per week before taxes and cost. I know there are providers that charge more than me, I know there are providers that charge less than me. If you think you pay to much, look for something else. I do not think this union debate is about the cost of child care in Minnesota. It’s about providers that do not want a union in Minnesota and the right to vote for it or against it. Not just a section of providers. It would be like saying only one and four people could vote for our President. How is that fair? This is all set up to pass because Gov Dayton has the unions is his back pocket funding is campaigns. Did anyone else find it funny he signed this EO yesterday shortly after going public about running again in 2014?

  • kimMN

    Kurt’s initial posting seems right on the money..unions prevent characters such as alleged pedophile Sandusky to be fired from Penn State.

    Steve the cynic’s comment is not strong on his logic. Steve says: “Yes, unions have occasionally overreached, but it’s nothing compared to the exploitation, abuse, and economic servitude that existed a century ago. If unions go away entirely, that state of affairs would start to return. ”

    Actually, we now have extensive labor laws for safety and so, the absence of unions does not negate or remove those laws. Further more, in America as compared to other countries I have seen, we have freedom to choose where and whom to work for..we don’t live in economic slavery as Steve would presume would be the result with no more unions. Public employees have no right to union salary bargaining when the ones that pay their union dues are the same ones that pay their salaries…talk about a conflict of interest and a union con job.

    Everyone should look at the Japanese car companies that have plants in America..no unions and polls show their employees are satisfied as well as these companies have been thriving! They also don’t pay their CEO’s the same bloated salaries as FORD and GM and Chrysler do.

  • Nichol Bergen

    I am a licensed childcare provider (14 years now). I have no need for the union. I am the owner of my small business, with a license to operate from the state of MN. I get to choose my hours, rates and business policies.I have no employer. No one pays my social security or other taxes, as you would have in another workplace. I am self employed and pay those taxes myself. How can you unionize workers who are all self employed? And if a union comes here, how can you force us to join? We have had provider groups to lobby and work with us for years and years. We already have representation.

    The Governors farce of a vote will gove about about 39% of all of the licensed providers a chance to even vote! (4400 of the total 11300 of us) Why do we not ALL get to vote??? What are they afraid of???

    If you want to see the union people in action, watch this 13 minute clip of the senate meeting they were involved in. Not very articulate are they? They can’t even tell what they can do for providers! http://www.childcarefreedom.com/unions-exposed/.

    The union for us is a bad idea and none of the providers I know want it.

  • Cyndi

    No unionization: 1) this isn’t a “union” in the same terminology as anyone else’s. There is no labor law to govern the unions or their members. 2) Child Care Subsidy is a family benefit, families are expected to pay what a provider charges, not the provider accepting just what subsidy sets; 3) eligible voters number 4-5,000, there are 11,000 providers who will be affected; 4) voluntary just means you don’t have to belong, all providers will be under the contracts negotiated; 5) MN states “fair share dues” can be applied by unions, currently it is not known if there is a provision to stop this union action. So, representation without a voice unless you “join” the union, have the privelage to vote for everyone. Not ok. Please have a longer segement on this topic.

  • Steve the Cynic

    Jefferson, of course the conservative dominated MPR wouldn’t want anyone linking to that liberal rag, the Strib. (That was sarcasm, in case you couldn’t guess.)

    I’ve run into that sometimes. It never bounces, though, if you simply post the text of the url, rather than turning it into a link.

  • Beth

    So, Tom, as the childcare providers successfully unionize, would the parents be next? It seems extreme, and I’m not a troll. But just following your logic that parents are partners in helping to form young lives as well.

    I am not underpaid; as a matter of fact, I make a better living than I did when I worked in a bureaucracy. We also do have professional standards in place, some of which are very stringent if I chose to abide by them. In no visit from an AFSCME rep have professional standards been discussed.

    You say that I work painfully long hours. I work 50 hours a week. But so does my husband. And he is a member of a union. Many self-employed business owners I know work upwards of 100 hours a week to make their small businesses successful. This is one of the sacrifices of owning your own business. You say I function in isolation from other adults, but I don’t. No fewer than 20 adults come in and out of my house all day, every day. You say we need a forum for developing a community of caregivers. This union issue has divided us more than anything I have seen in my years providing care. We have associations we can join. We have local neighborhood networks. We have food programs and state and federally funded agencies that support us. We belong to online social networks that link us together across the country, and even into Canada. I have dignity in my job, and don’t feel that my vocation is undervalued. The community I serve values me. I know this.

  • kimMN

    David’s comment is interesting to consider when he writes, “What is your point kimMN? Are you calling for anarchy? If all politicians are bad, and they all need to be thrown out, that’s what you’ll get. You constantly flap your sock puppet gums, but rarely say anything. Everything you post is unreadable. Does freedom works sock puppet school have a grammar class you can take too?”

    Actually, no you don’t David. But we do need laws to stop the abuse of congress using insider trading to enrich themselves at citizen expense. Former Speaker Nancy Pelsoi has made a few extra million each year she has been in Congress, not from her hotel operations either. As for your helpful comment about my grammar use. sometimes it is not so an easy thing to switch to and forth..or maybe

    you are crabby today?

    God bless, now be nice, iza bitriid, Shalom.

  • Heather Falk

    No! This action by our Govenor is wrong! If this is a “voluntary” union, what’s the need for a vote? If the unions wanted to establish a contractors union like the musician, actor, plumber, painter, electrician’s union etc., There is no problem with that either, but the FACT that the Governor needs to step in an establish bargaining rights is more telling. The biggest problem is what ever changes the union makes to the licesened HOME childcare industry all provider will have to follow, not just union members. Under the Govenors “exclusive” met & confer rights, yet only a small percentage of providers are allowed to vote. This small percentage was requested by the union, they only want CCAP providers voting, and though I believe we can vote the union out, why can not all 11,300 providers given the option to vote on an issue that will effect us all, because it is certain the union will lose if all providers voted!

    To address comments made above:

    all licesensed home childcare providers in MN are regulated by the same laws ( rule 2), there isn’t a need to standardize those across the board, because they already are.

    We do not have an oppressive employer! We are the only person in our company, the owner & the operator.

    We are not in hazordous working enviormemts, we are in our homes.

    We do not need a raise in “salary”. Again for those who struggle to understand our jobs, we set our own pay. I can charge a family whatever I want, because I contract with Parents directly.

    We do not need a stronger voice at the Capitol, there are ample organizations working on legislation to benefit providers, families and children, these organizations have lobbyist and are inexpensive or free to work with. Also I do not want a union speaking for me, the unions we childcare providers have been dealing with for the last 6 years are bullies, liars and misrepresent information and these are not moral traits in a group I want working for me. As an early educator I try very hard to instill in my children the opposite of this.

    We need stronger labor laws to protect those of us who are tired of the constant harassment of this union!

  • Steve the Cynic

    KimMN, if you think the demise of unions won’t result a weakening of the laws that currently protect workers, you’re delusional. The same folks that are demonizing unions are also demonizing “big government regulations.” As for those corporations that have contented workers without unions, don’t you think it’s the threat of unionization that’s making them behave?

  • Mary your comment, “This is a way for us to get these costs under control so that parents don’t have to get an extra job to pay for their child care!” really has me scratching my head. How, exactly?

    Your business expenses are electricity, gas, meals, art supplies, toys, etc. Is the union going to negotiate with Walmart and the utility companies on your behalf?

    The union is only going to add an expense and complication.

    Only about 4,400 of the 11,000 providers will be voting because of an arbitrary decision to only allow providers who were registered to provide care for CCAP subsidized children as of September 2011. Providers frequently move in and out of this group, depending on who their clients are at any given time. Clearly, the arbitrary cut off date was designed to prevent more providers from registering for CCAP to qualify to vote.

    If the vote goes in the union’s favor, all providers will be impacted as the state will view the union as the exclusive representative of the childcare providers to bargain with, yet only a select group of providers will be allowed to vote? It’s probably no coincidence that the regularly registered CCAP providers are those most likely to favor unions.

    And these people complain about voter disenfranchisement because of voter ID! Seems like they just don’t like fair elections.

  • Tracy Stengel

    The majority of providers I have heard from in union meetings, talks, hearings all complain about their business. They make less than minimum wage their hours are so awful, they complain about their job and working conditions. HMMM arent they their own boss. It seems to me that they think the answer is union however I think it is best business practice and RUNNING their business. I have been a provider for 6 years when I have had an issue my licensor has been there to help me work through it (its called using your resources people) I make way more than minimum wages because I don’t let my parents walk all over me and I have time management which allows me to set my hours and stick with them. All of you 5200 ccap providers who vote for the union and possibly pass should really take into consideration you are affecting 11000 providers with your vote. Think about the kids in daycare how you teach them to respect and be considerate of other people please do the same. Look at how much the union has answered and not answered serious questions. (or avoided them entirely) then come back and tell me that you know exactly what you are getting us all into! I know all 5200 of you have not become pro union but those who have step back and really look at this big picture. CCAP looks awesome but you need to remember the state has not been able to budget so it will come at a price. Possibly higher taxes…tax on clothing to compensate…it all rolls downhill! RUN YOUR BUSINESS AND YOU WONT HAVE ISSUES!

  • Tracy

    From a number of the comments I have read I can see that only one side of this issue is being reported.

    I started a business, I am my own boss. There are government regulations I must follow. I must be licensed, attend training and have home inspections. There are numerous groups working on my behalf with the legislators to make sure that we are regulated but not unfairly.

    I set my own fees, my own hours and I decide how I want to run my daycare. If I don’t do all of this well parents will choose a different provider.

    Where is the need for a union?

    The union is voluntary you say? Yes, only those who have families on assistance will get a chance to vote. How about the thousands of providers who won’t be heard?

    The union is voluntary you say? What about Fair Share? This means I will have to pay part of the union dues. I don’t join but I still have to pay.

    Who is going to absorb these costs? The providers who will then have to pass them on to the parents.

    Many of my families struggle to make ends meet. They work because they can’t afford not to and now the government is going to throw one more curve at them.

    I think the best way to sum this up is:

    LEAVE US ALONE! We are fine and if we want your help we will ask for it!

  • As a licensed child care provider in the state of MN for 17 yrs with a BAS degree in Parent Ed/Early childhood, I feel it is my responsibility to speak up about this issue. I will be one of the providers “allowed” to vote on this issue. I will vote NO. Not because I do not believe in the importance or significance of an effective union. Not because I am a democrat or a republican. Not because I wouldn’t love higher pay, better health care and more vacation time. But because I am a smart, educated, experienced professional provider who has worked in the trenches of home child care for almost 2 decades and I understand its ins and outs.

    Union representation will “fix” nothing, trust me. It will definitely raise expenses for us and our clients, increase our red tape and force us into some really hard decisions. In reality we are being forced to decide to join the union and make all of our clients pay for that expense or refuse and make any CCAP funded parents look elsewhere, even if they have been with us for yrs. Is it ok that my clients who do not qualify or receive assistance pay extra in order for me to care for clients that do?? What unionizing will eventually lead to in our area of the state is a lack of child care available for people who receive funding assistance. Those of us choosing not to join will no longer be allowed to help those clients on CCAP funding. Which in real terms will increase the division in our state of the haves and have nots. Our daycares will become low-income vs high-income. Only those that can afford my services on their own will get them. The county/state pays us less as it is already, we do our best to help those clients who really need it anyway, but with these extra costs now, I guarantee there will be a mass exodus in our area of providers who will be caring for low income families in the future. This is a sad and unfortunate position we will be forced into. It is sad for our society and our children. The best most educated providers, will only be available to those who can afford it.

    BTW: This isn’t about center based childcare this is a home child care issue/union. Those working in centers will still have no voice.(that union makes much more sense) =0)

  • Free from Retaliation!

    Fight on Providers….Fight on!!!!!

    We lost our fight with the union because of a Democratic Governor in bed with the Union and signing an Executive Order, trampling on the rights of the Legislature and the providers….Fight on I say!

  • kimMN

    Tracy and Karlene have summed up the question very well. The majority of today’s respondents are patently opposed to the idea of unions for day care. What this unionization does is simply to have the Unions involved more deeply with the state government that is paying out for subsidized daycare. With union involvement, control over how and when payment is made is chiefly by the unions for if they disagree with the reimbursement rate, they can strike and leave thousands of families out in the cold with out day care service, disrupting the working parents needs to find alternatives..but if they are all in the union, there is no alternative service.

    Maybe the unions should spend their time better servicing their paid for hoards at the Occupy Wall street protests held oddly enough, at NON wall street locations. Their protesting seems to be working against the democrats that support this planned marxist type protest. I hate to say it but Glenn Beck was right again when he commented that protests would soon follow Egypt’s protests and when protests star here it will soon be orchestrated to act out violence. WHY does Obama not Un-endorse this radical movement of mostly free loaders on the system expecting the rest of us to pay their way, to pay off their student loans they took out at gun point to earn a bachelors degree in useless fields? If daycare providers need a union then they ought to first do mandatory military service for 3 years to make up for the scalping of tax payers by the unions to the public.

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Absolutely NOT OK- NO UNION NEEDED.

    I am in absolute agreement with Heather Falk & will try not to restate what was already very well said. I am a MN licensed teacher who dreamed of creating my own unique INDEPENDENT SMALL BUSINESS including preschool, homework help, tutoring, family education, respite care, educational consultant/trainings & childcare. Childcare being a component of many things that I do. I am sadly frustrated with the overwhelming involvement of people who have really no true idea of the reality of the impact this will have. Dealing with this along with other government cuts in hours & pay in other programs within my business is getting very difficult for me to keep up with. But read that again…the GOVERNMENT has CUT areas of my program & pay. The Union states that it wants to help us with–

    “INDEPENDENT small business owner’s rights.” I ask you does the word “INDEPENDENT” go with “UNION” at all? I am surprised that other small business owners haven’t kept a close eye on what is happening with this. What legal precedent could this set for ALL small business? The bottom line is that I can not afford the cuts made to the CCAP & other Government funded programs already on top of the union dues only for them to offer me THAT WHICH I CAN ALREADY PROVIDE FOR MYSELF. My local colleagues are very good at representing ourselves when needed. Independently who would we have a grievance against? I make up my own “provider bill of rights” in my “policies & procedures” & terms are negotiated directly with families in my contracts. I am accountable to County licensing & MN teacher certification for my education/training to offer “quality in childcare.” Not to mention the loving Grandma type who is not interested in pursuing education but is interested in loving & caring for children–where will this put her (as an example)? On top of all this is they offer HEALTH CARE I will LOSE my current plan, And I will not be able to afford what is offered…. =( =( This is my reality.

  • Beth

    Way to stay on topic, KimMN. I am horrified that I am on the same side of this issue with you, but it just goes to show that Dayton is way off mark with this vote. If he is alienating me enough to lead me to side with the likes of you, he has made a very bad move.

  • Steve the Cynic, I’ll try again…based on the Star Tribune article many unions in Minnesota were demanding that Dayton order mandated unionization: “Dayton’s executive order stops well short of the mandated unionization that some governors have ordered and which unions here sought.” is the direct quote. Once there are more Democrats in state government mandated unionization for day care workers will become a more viable option, especially if there is already a union lobbying our state government for just that. Just look at the teacher’s union in Minnesota, today you cannot teach at a public school without paying some sort of union dues/fees…even if you opt out of the union completely you still have to pay. Now if you enter that profession the vast majority of jobs are public sector (90%+) so you are essencially forced to join a union even if your political ideology completely disagrees with it.

    BTW, if you want unlimited Star Tribune articles online just delete your history/cookies after you hit your 20 story limit.

  • kimMN

    Joyce tells it like it is from someone who knows from the inside of this business.

    If unions can take over daycare then they can take over other child/parent services. The government has funded Planned Parenthood for decades regulating what they receive. Most do not know that Planned Parenthood has orchestrated over 325,000 abortions each year, with the majority being done to minority women. Planned Parenthood should be more accurately termed, ” Planned Singlehood with chosen baby killing.”

    The true abortion agenda of ObamaCare is even more clear. In ObamaCare, the Planned Parenthood could run a health care clinic in your child’s school and receive our federal tax dollars to do it. The Supreme Court must declare this law unconstitutional,

  • Steve the Cynic, I’ll try again…based on the Star Tribune article many unions in Minnesota were demanding that Dayton order mandated unionization: “Dayton’s executive order stops well short of the mandated unionization that some governors have ordered and which unions here sought.” is the direct quote. Once there are more Democrats in state government mandated unionization for day care workers will become a more viable option, especially if there is already a union lobbying our state government for just that. Just look at the teacher’s union in Minnesota, today you cannot teach at a public school without paying some sort of union dues/fees…even if you opt out of the union completely you still have to pay. Now if you enter that profession the vast majority of jobs are public sector (90%+) so you are essencially forced to join a union even if your political ideology completely disagrees with it.

    Leaving out my reference to the Star Tribune website completely…apparently it’s just not allowed to link/mention the website. Glad to see censorship being used against a tax paying citizen…who is actually paying for MPR with my taxes.

  • Sorry about the double posting, I posted about 4-5 times before they finally let something through…odd because I kept sending in the similar comments with the same essential ideas but with slight changes. I didn’t think my comments were in need of censorship.

  • Wow

    Don’t take it personally Jefferson, you were censored by a spam filter. MPR isn’t out to quell your political views.

  • GaryF

    Unionizing daycare will cause a daycare provider’s costs to increase. The cost of daycare to the customer will increase.

    Does this mean the state will have to give out even MORE money in daycare subsidies in order to cover the increased costs?

  • Julie Fees

    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!! MY VOTE AS A LICENSED PROVIDER IS NO!!!!!!!!!

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Thanks KimMN 🙂 Since posting I have read others like Karlene & Tracy’s who are right in the middle of this themselves. I would like to be genuine here and say that I have been angry about this. So many Government hoops/loops for me to jump through in starting my business & rules/regulations to follow all of these being anticipated as I started my great adventure of independent enterprise. But so much Government involvement in my business now including all it’s cuts & this Union situation are drawing my attention away from what is absolutely the most important thing to me: the CHILDREN & FAMILIES. This causes a sadness that I can not even describe to you. I want to fight for my dream and the goals of my dream that I previously listed but sadly I almost feel as though I am struggling to fill in the gaps, cuts & gouges that the Government is leaving me (and others) with. The people I feel like I am failing are the children & families who I have been trying to offer Educational Care to and yet so much else gets in my way of the true goal of my dream. I LOVE them so much and it is for that reason I am not giving up and I hope they will not give up on my as in the past two years or more my attention has been strongly diverted. I want to Keep It Simple & Successful (KISS) and the Government just is not helping me with that at all. Because of Government cuts I have had to make HUGE dynamic changes to my business which was once separate from my home. Now, as of October 1st, the children are with me in my home & all dynamics are changing. I have had 8 1/2 successful years and I have to be honest the Government involvement is exhausting me. There is a real-genuine addition for all of you.

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Thanks KimMN 🙂 Since posting I have read others like Karlene & Tracy’s who are right in the middle of this themselves. I would like to be genuine here and say that I have been angry about this. So many Government hoops/loops for me to jump through in starting my business & rules/regulations to follow all of these being anticipated as I started my great adventure of independent enterprise. But so much Government involvement in my business now including all it’s cuts & this Union situation are drawing my attention away from what is absolutely the most important thing to me: the CHILDREN & FAMILIES. This causes a sadness that I can not even describe to you. I want to fight for my dream and the goals of my dream that I previously listed but sadly I almost feel as though I am struggling to fill in the gaps, cuts & gouges that the Government is leaving me (and others) with. The people I feel like I am failing are the children & families who I have been trying to offer Educational Care to and yet so much else gets in my way of the true goal of my dream. I LOVE them so much and it is for that reason I am not giving up and I hope they will not give up on my as in the past two years or more my attention has been strongly diverted. I want to Keep It Simple & Successful (KISS) and the Government just is not helping me with that at all. Because of Government cuts I have had to make HUGE dynamic changes to my business which was once separate from my home. Now, as of October 1st, the children are with me in my home & all dynamics are changing. I have had 8 1/2 successful years and I have to be honest the Government involvement is exhausting me. There is a real-genuine addition for all of you.

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Well I guess the same happened to me as Jefferson. Oh well, I do feel this is worth reading twice…I feel that strongly. 🙂

  • david

    Joyce,

    I thought the purpose of the union was to allow independent care providers to collectively fight much of the government red tape, regulations and such. As many felt their voices was not being heard. Ideally by cutting a lot of regulation they would more then recoup the $25/month union dues. MPR had a show on it a while back and that’s what I took from it, but I was in and out of my office and missed a great deal of it. It is really hard to find some non-partisan spun information on it right now.

    Does seem a sham that only providers taking state subsidies will have a vote when all providers sound like they’ll be affected.

    Maybe more of the parents should be in unions, then the average employees pay wouldn’t have declined compared to inflation over the last 40 years while the income gap has grown to insane amounts.

  • Ed

    If you dont want to union than Vote No!, but why stop the vote. That in its self is not fair. Let them vote and stop crying about it………….

  • Joyce McQuiston

    David-

    I know that there is so much that “sounds good” to those on the outside of this and even “sounds good” to some in it. It is, however, all those unknowns that could potentially have such a huge impact. Childcare Provider was only intended to be a component of what I do. It is the component drawing on all of my energies right now due to so much of this. Independent small business owners need to keep a close eye on decisions made here as they could set legal precedent as I stated previously. As Heather stated earlier, there are ample organizations working on legislation to benefit providers, families and children, these organizations have lobbyist and are inexpensive or free to work with.” Somehow, someone, somewhere thought we needed more.

  • Tracy Stengel

    TO ED:

    If we all got to vote I would vote NO as you say but obniously you don’t know enough about the topic or have read the below comments where only 4500-5300 of us 11000 GET TO VOTE! Read up or stay out!

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Thanks Tracy re: comment to Ed. It is comments like that that upset me so much as they are ignorant of details. People really need to educate themselves & be mature about it.

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Thanks Tracy Comments like Ed’s are what really upset me. People need to not remain ignorant. They need to educate themselves and be mature about it. Well my priorities are waking up. 🙂 My voice has been heard…

  • Ed

    I very much understand the topic, It seems to me your narrow view of this vote is the problem. So much is argued against the vote. Vote, vote no if you want. But you tea partiers are a bunch of cry babies

  • Ed

    To Joyce and Tracy,

    So you would supress my opinion as well as others. Because we dont agree with you……Get out of the kitchen if you cant take the heat!

  • Steve the Cynic

    As I said in my first post today, I don’t have an opinion on whether day care workers should be unionized. One thing is clear from the posts so far, though, is that the ideological poles (“unions are always bad” and “unions are always good”) are both wrong. The question of whether any particular unionization effort makes sense cannot be answered in the abstract.

  • Tracy Stengel

    Ed,

    Respectfully, I did not say I would suppress your opinion, I just pointed out that you need to brush up on your politics read through the issues before you form an opinon or make a comment you can comment any further on this as you wish. I will not get into anymore childish banter with you because this is not what it is about and you are taking a very serious personal issue to me and skewing it to freedom of speech which is not what this topic nor have any of us said can’t happen. Freedom to be a part of a vote that directly effects my life and the life of my clients yeah I think I am entitled!

    Thank you,

    Tracy

  • Ed

    Tracy,

    I very much know the issues, I am very close to several childcare providers in the St Paul area, they are professionals and well educated in early child hood development. Its thier freedom of speech as well as everybody else to express a desire to unionize. I have been following this from the beginning.

  • Jeanne

    No I don’t because not everyone gets to vote it is is only a few that will be voting. There are more providers than the ones getting CCAP.

    If this was going to be helping daycare center workers get benefits and such then that would be one thing but instead it is going to help only daycare providers caring for CCAP get more money and as a self-employed provider we need to take care of our own needs instead of thinking someone else is going to do it for us.

    There are more important things that need to be dealt with granted but I don’t feel that only a few should speak for the majority.

  • Matt

    My plumber has a union, and my electrician has a union. If these independent contractors can unionize, why not my child care provider as well?

    If they want it, then I’m all for it.

  • Beth

    This “crybaby” is not a “teapartier”. I am on the opposite end of the political spectrum of the Tea Party, actually. As I’ve said previously, I have a lot of self-deprication over this issue, precisely because I am agreeing with everyone who is typically on the other side of the “aisle” on any other issue.

    If Ed is “very close” with a lot of providers in the Saint Paul area, he should expand his horizons a bit. This issue splits every room full of childcare providers I have been in (of course, I’ve been at no AFSCME or CCPT meetings).

    The outrage here is over the exclusivity of the vote. I can’t take the advice to “vote, and vote no” if I want, because that right is being denied. Either all providers’ voices should be heard, or none. No matter what ideology you adhere to, that simple, all-American ideal should appeal to you.

    I wish other people commenting here would fully disclose their interest in this debate, as many providers have done. What about the others commenting? What is your motive?

  • Susan M

    The vote is totally unfair. Every daycare provider in Minnesota should have a right to vote on this union issue. The outcome is rigged before the vote even takes place! The majority of providers in this state do not want a union. Unions are a thing of the past.

    A union only raises the cost of daycare which no one can afford at this time. Who is going to pay the increased daycare fees because of union expenses? The hard-working parents will be paying higher daycare fees and also, more of their and everyone’s tax dollars will be picking up the tab for higher subsidizing costs of a small group of providers. If the unions really believe they are wanted, I challenge them to put the vote out to all providers.

  • jfh

    Nothing good can possibly come out of this type of “union vote”–except, of course, some sort of creds for our uber-rich, uber-Democrat governor trying to build / rebuild his reputation with the SEIU types.

    He’d be better off promoting new votes for the ACORN crowd.

  • Kristie

    If I had an option to vote for a union, I would vote no. I don’t need any more fes to pay, red tape,and hoops to jump through or rules and regulations to follow. Providers already have enough of that right now as well as established neighborhood groups, lobbying groups and quility programs available to assist any provider if they need it.

    Are these unions here because providers asked them to come to Minnesota or have the unions been methodicaly earmarking states to canvace with DFL Governors who are obligated to give them an executive order? Have unions been loosing membership and need a boost to their income? I don’t have the answers to why the unions came to Minnesota in the first place but I find it interesting there is not only 1 union but 2 fighting for the Minnesota terratory. Seems calculated and very suspicious to me. Non the less, I feel that I am a professional women owning and operating a small business where my needs are already being met by the programs already in place.

    It also seems like the root of this union is based off subsidised care. I see no need for me to be involved with government subsidies that are earmarked to assist parents. That is out of my control and beyond the boundaries of any business other than the family requiring the assistance. So much of subsidised care lies on the actions of the parents not the providers, however, since the provider is directly receiveing monies from the state, I see how providers would like to take ownership of the issues of a parent. In my opionion, that crosses the boundry lines of personal versus professional responsibility.

  • Beth, I like you am “horrified” to be on the same side of an issue as rhetoric spewing people like KimMN. Makes me almost sick, but it shows we are thinking and choosing with our heads not our politics. I am a left leaning liberal/moderate as well, who voted for Governor Dayton and probably will again, despite this issue. Having to deal with what WI is going through would be even worse in my book! It saddens me that our politicians on all sides have to play the $ campaign finance game with any and all special interest lobbies. And they ALL HAVEto play it, on both sides of the aisle. It is ignorant to think they don’t. It is campaign finance reform we need first and foremost, then we could finally, maybe, get down to the business of governing our great state.

  • kimMN

    Much thanks to all that posted their views on this issue from the union lobbying to effect government subsidies. Approximately 98% responding have voiced a NO vote to unionization of daycare by the same dispicable union thugs called the Service Employees INTERNATIONAL Union. International is the key word here as they have unionized in multiple low income countries.

    SEIU wants only to control and benefit from collecting dues for their top union leaders, that by the way make six figure salaries. SEIU is involved with Adbusters.com and the American Communist party for creating Occupy Wall street that created the protest filth village or Obamaville as some call it. Go to Adbusters web page to see heir earlier calls for a protest and follow the money to those that provided free food, water and sleeping bags.

    And where is our President to denounce the OWS protests? These useless free loading small groups of a few hundred, leaving hypodermic needles, defacating on the street and some rapists free roaming are alllllll supported by our President, at least one Congressman from MN and even Nancy Pelosi.

    These are the same politicians that support and take campaign money from SEIU and AFLCIO.

  • Steve the Cynic

    What’s 98% of 73 comments, kimMN? I suspect you’re exaggerating, as usual.

    I didn’t see any significant number of posts agreeing with your hostility to unions in general. In fact, I saw plenty that expressed support for unions in general but opposition to this particular union proposal. I’d be very surprised if your demonization of SEIU as “thugs” is anywhere near a majority opinion in Minnesota. When you give equal time to decrying union-busting “thugs,” I’ll believe you’re actually thinking, and not just parotting someone’s talking points.

  • CF

    We already HAVE unionized child care. It’s called the government schrools. And like education, child care belongs in the home the way God meant it to be.

  • Tracy Stengel

    Matt-

    Wow comparing us to plumbers and electricians-well I guess if this union thing passes hopefully we can charge $30-$40 an hour like a electrician or a plumber, per child and maybe we can tack on a fee for just visiting our daycare! Oh and if you want to visit on the weekend its double! Yep that would work wouldn’t it! Really, not the same business!

  • Nellie

    I don’t think there has been adequate coverage of the issue of unionizing home child care providers to inform my opinion. In general I think that being organized is helpful for anyone whether an independent contractor or someone who works in a large corporation. However it is not clear who these providers will be bargaining with?

  • Mike Jadrich

    The body of the executive order by Governor Dayton states that available childcare has declined over the past several years. The executive order also claims that by authorizing the vote, that this will increase the number of in-home childcare operations expanding the availability of childcare to parents who need it most. My wife has been operating an in-home childcare business for the past 15 years. This business has ebbed and flowed based on the economy. In 2008 our business dropped dramatically. In 2010, it recovered as people started to return to work.

    There has always been a paradox that the people who most need childcare can least afford childcare. Young new parents are in their early earning years. They simply cannot afford to pay what it costs to provide quality care for children….at least what it should cost. Each of these in-home childcare providers is an independent business. I’m not convinced that the union is going to create the environment that people will clammor to open childcare businesses. And those who believe they are supporting the childcare workers who deserve better wages and working conditions need to understand that in just about every in-home childcare center there is only one worker–the owner. This is by virtue of state regulations regarding the ratio of caregivers to children..

    The only ones who benefit from unionization is the union themselves. If a childcare center wishes to join the union, they will have to pay dues. This is a cost of doing business that doesn’t exist today. The union will also negotiate with the state on rules, regulations, policies and funding. These rules and regulations will most likely cover ALL licensed childcare providers regardless of whether they are members of the union or not. The union will also negotiate subsidies for childcare centers. With the current state of financial affairs, where will this funding come from? Who will pay?

    At the end of the day, the parents will lose control over their childcare provider and hand it over to the unions. The state already has mechanisms in place to adequately regulate childcare. Providers are audited regularly to maintain high quality care for children. Why do we need to add another layer of cost??? As I see it from a provider’s point of view costs will rise and as a result, many providers will simply close their businesses resulting fewer childcare choices. Fewer families will have access to quality in-home childcare. This is exactly the opposite of what the governor intends.

    Take it from a childcare provider who lives and breathes this business. We do not need an additional layer of complexity creating more costs to an already efficient business model.

  • Bear

    While this would have little or no impact on me, I feel for the independent in-home daycare providers and the young families struggling to get by. This measure has numerous unintended (really unstated by the unions) consequences: higher provider cost, higher daycare cost, with marginal if any benefit to those affected. This can be effected by executive order? We know Dayton is in the pockets of the unions; where is the voice of the impacted constituents?

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Mike Jadrich – Thank you. VERY well stated & exactly the same page I am on and right IN the middle of.

  • Steve the Cynic

    As I wrote yesterday, the quickest route to the socialist revolution that right-wingers (like kimMN) keep trying to make us afraid of is to give Big Business everything it wants and force people to live under the plutocratic tyranny that would result. Unions, government social programs, reasonable regulations, and progressive taxation are necessary to save capitalism from itself. FDR knew this, and so did a generation of politicians from both parties that followed him. We forget at our peril. This is not “radical”; it’s common sense.

  • Steve the Cynic

    Oops. I meant to post that last one on the 11/17 page.

  • A better question is: who gets to decide whether unionization is a good idea. The answer should be providers and their customers. No one should be forced to join a union. Nor should anyone be forced to buy union.

    Of course, no one should be forced to buy anything. There lies the problem. The entire argument for unionization is based on a dubious interpretation of subsidy as employment. If there were no subsidy, there would be no argument.

    Force ought to be removed from the entire process. End subsidies. Protect freedom of association. Problem solved.

  • Tanya T

    Yes, Union for independent-self-employed-small business owners who are licensed to provide family child care!!!

    How on earth can anyone say they are pro-union and not support anyone’s right to organize?

    And how, oh how, are providers coming to the conclusion that joining together as a union will give that union control over you or your business?

    I have been licensed for over 20 years and I have many times heard other providers at neighborhood meetings talk about how we need to join together to fight this issue or that issue – but who the heck has time for that when we would 50-100 hours per week (and most of us have families, too!)

    Good God people! Get over your fear and open your minds a little to the possibilities we have available to us right now! Get off your high horses about how great your life is right now and how you don’t ever need any help because you are a small business owner who has the world under your control. Because I would bet a million bucks you have been at one of your association meetings or called one of your provider friends to complain about something.

  • Tanya T

    I say Yes to having a union for family daycare providers not because the organizers knocked on my door and “sold” me something that I compared the “benefits” to the “cost.” I signed up because I believe that this work and this business and this profession is to dang important to be left to chance or the mercy and goodwill of a few.

    I want that control and that power – but I don’t want that at the expense of other providers’ control and power. We need a real system that will not fold when the current volunteers get burned out. And I don’t want someone speaking for me when they never asked me what I thought. And looking at the comments by some of the ultra-wingers on this thread (yep kimMN and joyce and cyndi) – I am even more convinced that a union is right for child care providers! Far too many conspiracy seekers babbling on afraid of the big bad unions.

    Beth – you need to trust that feeling that you can’t believe you are agreeing with them!

    Yes! universal health care… Yes! equal and fair representation… Yes! compromise for the greater good of the masses…

    You all need to be far more afraid of the corporations lobbying at the Capitol!

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Just for the record Tanya you have made a judgment about me that is incorrect. I am not a “winger” or even anti-union as you suggest. I am for union where union is needed & where it works. I presented my scenario with the utmost honesty & sincerity. You may judge me but if this does pass I will have even bigger concerns for my business. It is where I am coming from personally and had no intentions of anything you just suggested. I don’t NEED or WANT the union as I too have compared the cost vs. the benefits for ME.

  • Joyce McQuiston

    The bottom line with me is this: I just want ALL 11,000 providers to have their fair chance to vote on this. I want my fair chance to vote “NO” to the union. That is all I want to say…

  • Ron

    No, Govt should not interfere with private transactions between parents and childcare providers (private small business owners). There is already an oversight organization. No need for a UNION to DRIVE UP COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nancy

    I am a licensed daycare provider, and I say ABSOLUTLY NOT to a Union. They lied when they came to my door, so why in the world would I want to be part of that. I will not join any Union. Daycare providers are self employed small business owners that make their own rules, charge their own rates, make their own hours. Maybe the people that are compaining about such silly things, need to change careers.

    I find it very sad that our Govenor calls this vote FAIR and THE AMERICAN WAY. REALLY?????

    Why do only 4,400 providers out of 11,300 providers get to vote? Because it is the ones that are doing care for subsidised familes that want this to go through, so there for our wonderful Govenor has decided to only let them vote. IT all boils down to MONEY. If he wants to be fair about this then we should all be allowed a vote. But that won’t happen because there are more providers that DON’T want a Union than those that do.

  • Tanya T

    The govt is increasingly interfering in our business- that’s why we need to join together!

    I do not understand how people come to the conclusion that having a union will interfere with your business. That is such backwards thinking. People are so completely missing the point:

    “The child cares already have oversight.”

    “Govt shouldn’t interfere with private transactions.”

    “Daycare providers are self employed small business owners that make their own rules, charge their own rates, make their own hours.”

    “I don’t need any more fees to pay, red tape, and hoops to jump through or rules and regulations to follow.

    You are missing the point: Govt is the red tape, Govt is the hoops to jump, Govt is the interference on our private business transactions. We need to join together so that we have a way to stand up to the Govt when they are overstepping and making things worse for children and providers and families.

    A family child care union is about making SURE we have some control over new regulations and how the counties enforce them. And controlling all the costs the govt puts on us. It has NOTHING to do with our families that we work with.

    It is about having legal say in what the state is doing over our business and working together as a unified and democratic voice on the issue that we decide to work on.

    Where are people getting the idea that a union will tell us what to do and how to do it?

    That’s what we have now and it’s called the the state of minnesota.

  • Tanya T

    In response to Joyce McQuiston’s post:

    “Just for the record Tanya you have made a judgment about me that is incorrect. I am not a “winger” or even anti-union as you suggest. I am for union where union is needed & where it works. I presented my scenario with the utmost honesty & sincerity. You may judge me but if this does pass I will have even bigger concerns for my business. It is where I am coming from personally and had no intentions of anything you just suggested.”

    My judgment is regarding your assumptions about what having a union will mean because it’s “wingers” who jump on a bandwagon in full force without even looking at the facts objectively. And without really listening to anything except what fits into their mindset.

    All those things you talked about govt doing to make your business more difficult and expensive are what we can fight against together as a union. And we would have our union to spend all their time doing it -so that we can spend our time doing exactly what you said: TEACHING and CARING for the CHILDREN!

    And one more thing…

    “I don’t NEED or WANT the union as I too have compared the cost vs. the benefits for ME.”

    You didn’t read what I wrote – I said I did NOT sign up because of a “what’s-in-it-for-me-right-now” attitude. I have only enrolled 1 family in 20 years who had subsidy. I have never had a correction order. I have my husband’s health insurance. I am a member of the associations and other advocacy groups.

    But I know that the state and county govt agencies don’t give a hoot about our business or the families we work with! So we need to have a way to stand up to them or we will be run right over!

  • Joyce McQuiston

    Tanya-

    I am just going to, respectfully, agree to completely disagree with you. I read what you wrote. But I responded in respect to me because I can not speak for anyone but myself & the benefits a union would provide for my business. Logically, I am going to look at why I would need or what I would benefit from having the union. The very opposite of your suggesting I am joining “a bandwagon.”

    Tanya all I want is for ALL providers in the state of MN to be able to vote. You vote yes & I will vote NO for (yes) my own business reasons. I am not going to engage with you further in this. And I would appreciate no further references to me. You can carry on without references to me. Thank you

  • Terry

    Unions, especially public employee unions are a device to ensure the re-election of the leftist power base. Who contributes the most to politicians? The statists here will insinuate it’s corporations. Wrong, it’s unions; largely public employee unions which even FDR opposed. They contribute almost universally to and work to elect Democrats.

    This issue is not about “the children” which is the chronic whine for more money for education (i.e. unions). It’s not about “workers rights”. Most of the workers don’t even get a vote. It’s a sham.

    Make no mistake. This is about money and power. Both will be directed to the Democrats should this unjust, un-American policy stand.

  • Kelly

    Does it really make a difference if only part of the providers get to vote to the people who will not join anyway?

    Did anyone ever ask every provider to vote to let an association start speaking for other providers?

    Membership is voluntary.

    Let the people who want it – have that opportunity to join.

    If you don’t want it – don’t join and continue doing everything the way you do it now just like you want.

    I wish I could vote – because I would vote yes. and if the providers who do get ballots make this happen, I will be joining – yep: Voluntarily!

  • Tracy Stengel

    Kelly- yes it does matter because we will still fall under the fair trade law (and even though Dayton says he will not recommend it will happen he does not say he will prohibit it from happening) we will have to pay a due that for something we don’t want. Have you ever had an association come to your door knock and say, we just passed a law that you may or may not have wanted and yeah you need to pay us? I don’t think so. And again I would have to turn around and say, why would I have to pay for a union I didn’t want, for things they want to do that I don’t want, and have to abide by the laws that they put in place that I also didn’t want. There is a reason I did my own business and I knew getting into it that the state has a lot to say about our business but in the long run it is to keep children safe in our house. What is the unions objective out of it? To make money! I have been to the hearings without an opinon formed and chose no union because for one the people up speaking for the union could not answer questions. I don’t know what other people think but it makes me wonder how strong they lobby for me too? Different questions with the same answer. When they were backed into a corner being asked a question they refused to answer when the committee answered for them it was shock in the room. If you don’t feel that you can do your business without union representation perhaps your in the wrong field of work!

  • Joyce

    Yes Though a small group of people will vote the decision will affect ALL 11,300. I didn’t form my opinion to say NO to the Union right away. I have many union friends and grew up in a very much union family. There are times and situations where needed and they work. This is not one of them. It has been through listening to the results of legislative hearings, through educating myself on these unions, learning about all the details of what they are trying to implement and learning none of what they are saying will work for me. And unless you have been to these hearings yourself you are missing the details that as Tracy mentions even the union itself can’t provide some of the answers to as questioned. If you aren’t going to these hearings and you don’t have a group of providers going to educate you with results how are you educating yourself about the unions’ intentions? And once the union is voted in there are no labor laws to protect us from the union itself. These childcare unions currently exist outside of labor law. My NO is an educated decision for myself, for my business for the families & children I love & serve.

  • Bonnie Watkins

    YES. The current situation just perpetuates low pay for women, who are still forced to operate on the margins of the economy for too long, both as low-paid child care workers and low-paid moms in other industries. Having a union will not solve everything but will begin to address the need to respect this profession. Thanks to the child care workers themselves, plus AFSCME and SEIU, for thinking outside the box.

  • I do not intend to copy this web site, but I actually like the design. May you touch upon which theme you are using or is this customized for this blog?