Concealed carry redux

Last June 7 in Coon Rapids, one of two things happened: An innocent man using the intent of the state’s concealed carry handgun law defended his family by shooting the threat or a man fired his gun, for which he had a permit, in the heat of — and because of — road rage.

And there you have both sides of the old Minnesota concealed carry debate, only now it’s going to be fought in an Anoka County court after both participants in the incident were indicted last week.

Not in dispute is that Robbinsdale undercover cop Landon Beard, 27, was shot by trained security specialist Martin Treptow, 35. During traffic on Woodcrest Drive, Beard cut onto the the shoulder to pass traffic, including Treptow’s SUV. Treptow got upset and followed Beard for several blocks before shooting Beard.

Who showed a gun first is a harder determination to make. By one account, Beard was hanging out the window of his vehicle threatening to kill Treptow. Treptow shot him in order to protect his wife and two young children, who were in the vehicle with him.

By another account, Treptow’s yelling prompted Beard to call 911, and when he looked up, Treptow had pulled his gun and was aiming at him.

Beyond the felony charges against both men, at stake is the ability of one side in the ongoing gun debate in Minnesota to say, “I told you so.” Either the concealed carry law helped a man protect his family, proving its usefulness as its supporters intended. Or the concealed carry law made a road rage incident worse, confirming the fears of the law’s opponents.

It also is one of the hottest topics in the blogs, who may be following the case more intently than the mainstream news folks.

“This charge implies that Treptow is some kind of gangbanger who was settling a drug dispute,” wrote blogger Douglas Hester on his blog, The Northern Muckracker. “Once Treptow neutralized the apparently deadly threat to his family, he removed them from the perceived danger by driving a few blocks to a gas station, while his wife immediately called 911 to report the incident while they were on the move, and well before they arrived. When they reached the station, they parked and waited quietly for the police to arrive.”

“Road rage incidents almost always require two idiots to reach the point this one did. Unfortunately, both idiots had guns,” said Charlie Quimby on his blog, Across the Great Divide. Did the shooter have other options? I believe so, but I wasn’t there. Should the cop have behaved differently? There’s no question in my mind that he should have.”

  • c

    Oddly-

    I had a similar situation. Mid to late summer, I am driving home from work and exiting from 94 to 6th Street by Metro State. At the time I didn’t realize that my left blinker bulb was out. I signalled to get into the left exit lane and this-Big White Suburban-speeding behind me was doing the same. Apparently I must have “harshed his gig” cause he beeped me. I looked into my rear mirror and I can see a White Dude in a Big White Suburban waving hands with a crabby face. As I pulled up to the stop light (yeah I too love those folks who need to race up to the stop light from the freeway) he flung a couple f’in hiemer, B’s and C’s that rhym with hunt at me. All I can think is, “wow, this fellow must be mad.” I wave to him with a smile and then HE says to me (keep in mind I am a SHE) “I AM GOING TO KICK YOU A$$” This was a new experience. The light turned green. I motioned for him to follow me. Unbeknownst to him, I was on my way to the Police Department over on Olive Street. A friend who was a cop was -on his own time-helping me with some cyber stalking issues and I had to pick up my tower. The Big White Suburban was very obedient in following me- all the while yelling that he will kick my butt and then at some point he started motioning that he was going to shoot me in the head. I pulled out my cell phone and called my friend at the police department-and this dude is STILL following me up to the point where I was at the stop lights infront of the police department. I did give my friend the lisence plate number. At the stop light I think the white dude figured out what was happening and bolted the scene.

    Moral of the story-check your blinkers and try not to drive by Big White Suburbans.

    Gee I wonder what would have happened if he had the conceal and carry consent? And the test they take in order to have the consent verifies whatttttt????

  • What’s stopping savvy criminals from having a concealed carry permit? What if a robber doesn’t have a gun and the homeowner does, and decides to shoot it? Is it okay to have people who hunt as a hobby be able to carry a gun with them everywhere? Are those people able to use their heads over their instincts at all times, or will they just be trigger happy? Who can we trust?

    The concealed carry law was brought up again recently after the mall shotting in Omaha. Gun rights advocates were saying that the tragedy could have been avoided if someone in the mall was carrying a weapon. Mmmhmm, just like the death penalty deters crime and gang violence is so rare. Obviously, the more guns the better.

  • Stacia, let me respond to your comments.

    “What’s stopping savvy criminals from having a concealed carry permit?”

    Their criminal record, of course. Criminals can’t and won’t pass a criminal background check, nor do they go to the sheriff’s office and pay $100, just to be denied because they have a rap sheet and no proof of training.

    “What if a robber doesn’t have a gun and the homeowner does, and decides to shoot it?”

    Since these types of incidents tend to happen in the middle of the night, and since the homeowner usually, isn’t psychic enough to tell what the robber’s intent is,or whether he is armed or not, I would think that using deadly force to neutralize the threat to oneself and one’s family is justified. Other people think so, as well, which is why they are trying to pass the Castle Doctrine law in Minnesota, which would allow homeowners to treat intruders as deadly threats, and relieve them of a duty to retreat in their own home.

    “Is it okay to have people who hunt as a hobby be able to carry a gun with them everywhere?”

    If they obtain the necessary training and permits, why not? They’re usually very good at hitting their target. (I’m being a little facetious here.)

    “Who can we trust?

    Speaking only for myself, I would trust my firearm and training to protect myself and my family before anything else, including the police, as they are generally not around when the actual crime occurs. Having them take minutes to respond is way too long when seconds count.

    “Gun rights advocates were saying that the tragedy could have been avoided if someone in the mall was carrying a weapon.”

    Exactly. Seeing as how the mall was posted “no guns”, the only people that paid attention and were disarmed were the law-abiding gun owners. Criminals don’t abide by any laws, whether it’s robbery, murder, or a sign on a mall door. All that sign accomplished was to ensure that a large number of defenseless people became easy targets for a deranged person.

    If you choose not to carry a handgun for defensive purposes, that is your right, and I respect that. In return, please do not prevent me from exercising my inherent right to self-defense. Who knows, maybe a permit holder will defend you someday.

    Bob, thanks for allowing me to respond on your blog.

  • Larry Reed

    Thank you to the above poster. Too often we forget who the real victims are in all this. Too many families have been destroyed by deranged criminals who have no respect for the sanctity of life.

    Happy New Years to all.

  • kurt nelson

    I get a kick out of the gun nuts who think that if only they had a gun and were at the Mall in Omaha they would have been able to subdue the shooter. What a crock. Are they trained in this type of situation? Do they know for certain who the shooter is? What about the other gun nut who pulls his gun out to “get the killer” only to be shot by another gun nut who thinks he is getting the right person.

    Before all you gun nuts get your undies in a bundle, I am a gun owner, in fact I have a bunch of them, I was trained in how to use them (Dad was a cop) and I have great respect for those who hunt or otherwise use them for a real purpose, but I can only shake my head when that tired cannard of limiting guns only benefits the criminals raises its ugly head. It is one thing to pass the test and get a permit, and quite another to have the training to keep calm when all hell is breaking loose. I would say that most permit carriers would act like the rest of us in a similar situation in Omaha or Virginia Tech, which is running away to save your own skin. Military training would be the only real counter to this argument, and that does not mean success either.

    A good friend is a gun nut, he has a permit, and he actually goes to the range on a regular basis and fires off a few hundred rounds to make sure he is sharp and proficient with his weapon. How many of these other Rambo’s do the same thing. Carry is different than use.

    Rather than just bow to the percieved fear that any type of gun control is the loss of a precious right, gun nuts should think deeply about what this means rather than merely take the poisoned soup from the NRA.

  • Dave Leikam

    Guns are a part of our society. Anyone who wants a gun can get one. Anyone. We will not eliminate guns anytime soon. Get over it. So……

    I live in WI where we do not have concealed carry.

    We might as well put up a sign on I-94 at the borders saying, “Lots of unarmed citizens here!”

    Would you hang a sign on yourself or put a sign on your home door saying “I do not have a gun.” or “No guns here.” Why did the US win the Cold War? Not because we disarmed ourselves. For those of you who do not own a gun, why don’t you hang a sign on your door stating this fact? This is exactly what a total gun ban would do. And this is what not having the right to carry a gun in my state does to those of us who follow the law.

    I know if criminals knew their target might have a gun, they would most likely change targets. It sounds plausible to say no one would be able to handle all Hell breaking loose, but if it did I would rather someone in the area have an angel in their pocket. The odds of that person choosing to run and save their own skin may be high. But my odds of survival would be higher too. And if I was the one with the equalizer, I feel pretty damned sure I would use it.

    Who then should protect us if we can’t protect ourselves? The police? Give me a break!!! The police come later to ask the questions.

    By the way, why do Police carry guns? Really, think about that once.

    Are police lives worth more than mine? After all, the bad guys are not usually after the police, they are after me and you! And I’m not supposed to be able to carry a gun?

    Why can Governer Doyle of my state (who by the way is the reason we do not have concealed carry yet and 48 states do) have body guards with guns? Is his life worth more than mine or my families?

    No one could possibly know what might happen in any situation where guns are involved. I think the record of positive verses negative civilian events over time in all areas where guns are involved should be weighed to determine if concealed carry is a good right to persue or not. I think the facts will show it works.

    If I can’t protect myself, my property and my family with a gun, against somone who wants to use a gun against me, then with what? Or, maybe some think we shouldn’t be able to protect ourselves? I guess that would be politically correct.

  • c

    Would you hang a sign on yourself or put a sign on your home door saying “I do not have a gun.” or “No guns here.”

    MY COMMENT, “AH….YEAH.”

    Why did the US win the Cold War?

    I THINK THAT IT WAS A MUTUAL AGREEMENT THROUGH CONSCIOUS CONVERSATION. I DON’T THINK GORBIE THOUGHT HE SHOULD SURRENDER BECAUSE WE HAD A BIGGER STICK.

    Not because we disarmed ourselves. For those of you who do not own a gun, why don’t you hang a sign on your door stating this fact?

    YA GOT ONE-I’LL HANG IT. A FRIEND OF MINE HAS ONE HANGING ON HIS FRIDGE

    This is exactly what a total gun ban would do. And this is what not having the right to carry a gun in my state does to those of us who follow the law

  • Linda Reed

    I just have to jump in here and get the rest you you all to think a little. My hubby has been armed since I married him over 30 years ago. It has kept our family safe from harm. I can rest easy knowing that intruders will be taken care off. Fortunately we live where we have not had to do so yet.

  • bsimon

    Dave Liekam writes

    ” live in WI where we do not have concealed carry.

    We might as well put up a sign on I-94 at the borders saying, “Lots of unarmed citizens here!””

    Interesting. With the new concealed carry law in MN, have the crooks left MN, choosing to instead prey on the unarmed rubes in Wisconsin?

    Could the above example (June 7 incident in Coon Rapids) have occurred in Wisconsin, given that state’s lack of a concealed-carry law? Or is the existence of the law unrelated to the incident?

  • Dave Leikam

    c writes

    “I THINK THAT IT WAS A MUTUAL AGREEMENT THROUGH CONSCIOUS CONVERSATION.”

    You think? Check your history. Ah — yeah, it was because we (The USA) had and has a bigger stick.

    The biggest stick ends every war. Come down from la la land.

    Why do you think criminals use guns for crime? Whoever has the bigger stick wins. If your a bad guy, a gun is the biggest stick you can carry.

    We unarmed rubes in WI have our own criminals here already. However, if the ones from MN decide to come here, I am sure they would report each visit so everyone would know.

    For those of you who don’t want to see others able to carry or own guns for self defense, what are you afraid of? I am not a law breaker. I won’t shoot you, that would be illegal.

    Look, I don’t care if others don’t want to own or carry a gun. Just don’t take away my right to choose to protect myself. Its my body!

    Oh and to Kurt with all the guns and training, would you be happy if a law was passed and you had to surrender all your guns? Why do you own them and why did you get training? Your situation is exactly what us gun nuts want the right to attain.